Condensed Weapons List

[Gnostic Gnoll]

Hey everyone. I just recently got C&C, hoping it would address some of the issues I've had with the 3rd Edition D&D (and even more so 3.5). I felt there were a lot of good things about it in the beginning, and was enthusiastic when I switched from 2nd Edition back in 2000, but over time I've run low on the inspiration well, so to speak, and feel 3rd Edition's style of play doesn't really serve to recharge my batteries in that area.

Anyway, there are a lot of things I enjoy about C&C, but also a great deal I can't avoid tinkering with. In fact, one of the main draws to the system for me was that I might be able to tinker with it more freely than 3E/3.5. I also think the SIEGE engine nicely addresses my recent desires in a skill resolution system.

However, I took one look at the weapon list and practically lost consciousness. So I finally sat down and did what I've been meaning to do for the past two years: distill the weapons down into an "essential" sort of form, establishing a few baseline stats that cover a wide range of weapons. I've done that with the melee weapons; the ranged ones still present a bit of a conundrum to me at this time. Nevertheless, I thought I'd throw my plan up here for people to see and perhaps comment on. I realize such a system might not be everyone's cup of tea, but if it does appeal to you, well... insert something inspirational here.

[quote]Code:

Brutal weapons are large and imposing dealers of pain and hurt. This includes anything from large, spiked clubs to massive swords to mighty axes. Brutal weapons must be wielded in two hands.
Polearms are usually bladed weapons that sit upon the end of a long shaft (or pole) of metal or wood. Pikes, halberds, scythes and large war spears all fall into this category. All polearms must be wielded in two hands. Most polearms do 2d4 damage. If your character can use both polearms and martial weapons, you may use a polearm with the charge ability, but the damage is reduced to 1d8.
Martial weapons are those weapons that see a lot of practical use on the battlefield, and tend to be favored by professional soldiers, mercenaries, and other warriors of an endless number of callings. Tools that have been improved to suit the purposes of war are also of martial design. Knightly swords, heavy maces and fierce axes are among some of these weapons. Martial weapons are wielded in one hand.
Skilled weapons are smaller, finely-balanced bladed weapons, usually swords of some variety like a rapier. While they do not pack the sheer force of their martial cousins, they are lighter and provide less hindrance to movement. Skilled weapons are wielded in one hand.
Simple weapons do not require much skill to wield, and are thus normally employed by those unskilled in other arms. That is not to say, however, that an individual could become skilled with them over time, given the right training. Many simple weapon are nothing more than everyday tools that have been put to use to defend oneself. A woodsman's axe, an old man's walking staff, and the simple spear of a hunter are all simple weapons. Simple weapons are wielded in one hand. Some of them are throwable.
Small weapons are a diverse bunch. Some are simple tools, others wickedly-crafted implements of pain. However, their size dictates that they are not as readily lethal without close quarters and often an element of surprise. Knives, daggers, saps and some hammers are small weapons. Small weapons are wielded in one hand. They are generally easy to conceal, and many of them are throwable.
Tricky weapons are usually light and small in nature, with intriguing purposes. Effectively, a tricky weapon can provide one of the following benefits: a +3 bonus to a roll to either disarm or to overbear rolls, or provide a +1 bonus to the wielder's Armor Class in lieu of attacking with that weapon for a given round.
Charge: A polearm with this ability may either deal double damage when used in a charge, or deal double damage when set against a charge. This choice is fixed.
Throwable: A melee weapon with this ability can be thrown rather than wielded in melee combat. It has a range of either 10 or 20 feet.
Proficiency by Class
Fighter: Any
Ranger: Any
Rogue: Skilled, Simple, Small, Tricky
Assassin: Any
Barbarian: Any
Monk: Simple, Small, Tricky
Wizard: Simple, Small
Illusionist: Simple, Small
Cleric: Martial, Simple, Small
Druid: Polearm, Skilled, Simple, Small
Knight: Any
Paladin: Any
Bard: Martial, Skilled, Simple, Small, Tricky

I'm aware there are no listed costs. I figure, beyond the first adventure, weapon cost has very little meaning since you're likely to stick with the one you got and have gobs of money enough to buy the one you want in any case. I leave such matters to the CK and players. What would ideally happen with this, in my mind, is that a player could simply describe the weapon they want, and in tandem with the CK could easily establish its game effects. Suggestions and thoughts are appreciated.

[Treebore]

That does simplify things. I don't think my current players, or even a lot of past players would like that though. They seem, and seemed, to like looking through the books, liking the various looks if not the damage.

I guess what I could do is say that they can look through the books for a specific look, and then use this damage mechanic for them (Which I think is what you are saying to do anyways). See if that will make everyone happy and make things easier.

As Arioch says (when he actually comes to the boards and posts) "Cool Beans"!

[Metathiax]

I had some issues with the weapons list myself. I tweaked and rebalanced it quite a lot and I'm now satisfied with the result (it's available in my house rules). Other people followed a somewhat similar route to yours such as Obergnom while E.T.Smith favored a class-based damage approach. The link to Obergnom's file is currently broken but I could send it your way if you PM me your email. They both did good work in my modest opinion.
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"Abandon the search for Truth; settle for a good fantasy." author unknown
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[PeelSeel2]

Looks good. I have thought about using a classed based damage system at times. This system looks better.
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[Gnostic Gnoll]

Hm. Definitely a good rework by E.T. Smith. I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one who had complications with ranged weapons. It definitely runs lighter than my own system, and it isn't too much work to figure out what class a given weapon-wielding monster most resembles.

I've been glancing through your house rules for the past few days, before I started posting, but time and attention diversion have meant the only real thing I can say right now is: "Impressively extensive!" And that's not really much to say.

Thanks a lot for the files. I'll PM you my e-mail.

[irda ranger]

Nice, but I think you're re-inventing the wheel. This is (essentially) the D&D 3.x weapons list (sans Exotic Weapon feat and Crit rules).

I like the division by class, however. I like it a lot, and will probably adopt it.
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[Metathiax]

Gnostic Gnoll wrote:
Hm. Definitely a good rework by E.T. Smith. I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one who had complications with ranged weapons. It definitely runs lighter than my own system, and it isn't too much work to figure out what class a given weapon-wielding monster most resembles.

I've been glancing through your house rules for the past few days, before I started posting, but time and attention diversion have meant the only real thing I can say right now is: "Impressively extensive!" And that's not really much to say.

Thanks a lot for the files. I'll PM you my e-mail.

I've sent the file your way. Hopefully, Obergnom won't mind me sharing his work with other crusaders. It's a shame that its link is broken.

As far as my "house rules" go, I must admit that it's more of a revision of the game than a collection of house rules. I'm about to finish tweaking up the 8th version of my file. No new content (I'm pretty happy with what's already there and I don't want to needlessly complexify the game), just minor post-play-testing changes (mostly minor balance issues). I must say that, so far, the whole system holds up very well to actual game-play. The goal was to add my favorite features of all versions of D&D while making the most out of C&C's fast and simple SIEGE engine. You could say that it's my personal gaming Holy Grail...
*EDIT* My House Rules v8 are now available.
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"Abandon the search for Truth; settle for a good fantasy." author unknown
My C&C Page
My House Rules v8

[Omote]

Good stuff. And as mentioned above, brings out the balance to weapons nicely. I'm not sure if it's "classic" enough for my tastes, but this type of weapon classification is one of the better aspects of the modern D&D rules.

..........................................Omote

FPQ
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[Treebore]

Metathiax wrote:
I've sent the file your way. Hopefully, Obergnom won't mind me sharing his work with other crusaders. It's a shame that its link is broken.

As far as my "house rules" go, I must admit that it's more of a revision of the game than a collection of house rules. I'm about to finish tweaking up the 8th version of my file. No new content (I'm pretty happy with what's already there and I don't want to needlessly complexify the game), just minor post-play-testing changes (mostly minor balance issues). I must say that, so far, the whole system holds up very well to actual game-play. The goal was to add my favorite features of all versions of D&D while making the most out of C&C's fast and simple SIEGE engine. You could say that it's my personal gaming Holy Grail...
*EDIT* My House Rules v8 are now available.

I must say you have really improved the lay out of your rules. Much "cleaner" I think is the best way to sum it up.

Have you had anyone play a Necromancer yet? The reason I am asking is because the spells selection at first level seems a little weak and too focused. So I am wondering if it has been played and how the player felt.

Also were you OK with Animate Dead coming into use on their 2nd level spell list? Wasn't too powerful too fast?

[Metathiax]

Quote:
I must say you have really improved the lay out of your rules. Much "cleaner" I think is the best way to sum it up.

Thanks, the bookmarked table of contents and titles were a much needed addition to my file.

Quote:
Have you had anyone play a Necromancer yet? The reason I am asking is because the spells selection at first level seems a little weak and too focused. So I am wondering if it has been played and how the player felt.

Not yet, I've had a player hesitating to play a necromancer up to the very end but he decided to start the campaign with a sorcerer instead. He didn't seem to be put off by the narrow spell selection. The necromancer's spell list is indeed very focused (a restriction also found in all editions of D&D) but I felt that it was a necessary trade-off since this class is breaking a "taboo" by giving access to curative spells to an arcane spellcaster (I liked the idea of having an alternative to the cleric or druid). I also don't think a necromancer should have as large a spell selection as does the illusionist.

Quote:
Also were you OK with Animate Dead coming into use on their 2nd level spell list? Wasn't too powerful too fast?

As written, the necromancer gains access to all undead-creating spells 1 spell level sooner than the cleric. I don't see being able to control 6 HD of skeletons and/or zombies at a time as anymore game-breaking than using the permanent duration Invisibility spell for example. Besides, using up corpses to create an undead entourage for himself won't make the necromancer M. Popularity with the locals.
These are good questions though and I'll need more play-testing (I'm planning to involve a necromancer NPC in my campaign ) before I'm able to give you definitive answers.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Gnostic Gnoll...
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"Abandon the search for Truth; settle for a good fantasy." author unknown
My C&C Page
My House Rules v8

[Gnostic Gnoll]

Haha. No problem. I'm just along for the ride, really. Thanks for the file! I'll also be looking over your own house rules soon enough.

[Emryys]

Looks good
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