Troll Lord Games

I have noticed that most players don't understand what metallic weapons are permissible per RAW for a druid. Here is the 411:

Only copper or "cold forged iron" weapons made of natural raw materials are available. "Free" copper is fairly abundant. One can find nuggets and beat them (cold) into useful items and soft weapons. Iron on the other hand only exists in a "free" (natural) state in two forms. Meteoric iron and telluric iron. Iron from meteors has a high % of Ni. Telluric much lower % of Ni. Telluric iron is probably about as rare as Mithril. Meteoric iron in amounts to cold forge weapons is rarer than gold.

Cold forging iron. This means forming below the recrystallization temp. In short it takes a lot more time and energy to cold forge. It results in the iron getting harder and more brittle than if hot forged.

To sum up. Cold forged iron weapons are going to cost MANY times more than normal iron weapons and they will be pretty crappy compared to their hot forged counterparts.

A lance made from a Narwhal tusk with an iron head made from a meteorite.

Where are the Druids getting the money to afford these cold forged weapons that are akin to today's hockey sticks (expensive but very brittle)?

Zudrak wrote: (expensive but very brittle)?

Correct

Zudrak wrote:Where are the Druids getting the money to afford these cold forged weapons that are akin to today's hockey sticks (expensive but very brittle)?

They probably find them in nature, or the raw material, and then contact buddies (such as dwarfs) to make them into something useful.

Not sure why this would be confusing: Bows, club, dagger, dart, hand axe, hammers, scythe, sling, sickle, spears, sword (any), staff. Looks fairly straight forward to me. RAW, any of those weapons are usable by a Druid.

R-

Rigon wrote:Not sure why this would be confusing:

What is not generally known the type of metal that can be used. The first sentence in my OP covers the scope of what I'm talking about. Bows and the like are not part of this discussion. (except their arrows will be crap vs. metal armor)

Aluminum.

All druid weapons should be aluminum.

Arduin wrote:

Rigon wrote:Not sure why this would be confusing:

What is not generally known the type of metal that can be used. The first sentence in my OP covers the scope of what I'm talking about. Bows and the like are not part of this discussion.

I don't think there is anything in the list to suggest that Druids can't utilize steel weapons, just metal armors.

R-

Ok, sorry, didn't see the section in the Druid write up. I get where you are coming from.

R-

Rigon wrote:

Arduin wrote:

Rigon wrote:Not sure why this would be confusing:

What is not generally known the type of metal that can be used. The first sentence in my OP covers the scope of what I'm talking about. Bows and the like are not part of this discussion.

I don't think there is anything in the list to suggest that Druids can't utilize steel weapons, just metal armors.

R-

It is in the rules listed in the Class description. Like I said. Most people don't realize the restrictions of the the class in this regard.

serleran wrote:Aluminum.

All druid weapons should be aluminum.

Here is armor made from aluminum cans...

serleran wrote:Aluminum.

All druid weapons should be aluminum.

Foiled again!

*ducks and runs*

serleran wrote:

Zudrak wrote:Where are the Druids getting the money to afford these cold forged weapons that are akin to today's hockey sticks (expensive but very brittle)?

They probably find them in nature, or the raw material, and then contact buddies (such as dwarfs) to make them into something useful.

Good answer. I was half-joking, but it could come up in-game.

Of course eventually Ironwood solves the problem nicely. But I like the details you've provide about composition and methods.

-Mike

mgtremaine wrote:Of course eventually Ironwood solves the problem nicely. But I like the details you've provide about composition and methods.

-Mike

Of course. But, that is at 11th level. LOTS of time to use sub-par equipment.

Metal. Bah! Sticks n stones will break your bones just fine, thank ye. Especially with shillelagh and magic stone

Unless all players and CKs are virtual historians or metal smiths the few words in the beginning of the description will be totally lost on most (as noted). But it matters little until there is a note explaining this in game terms.. aka the affects of copper or bronze or flint weapons in the game, the cost of cold forged metals, etc. To make matters worse the 6th printing/edition now clears it up that Druid's can now use beyond scimitars ALL swords.. How about a nice two handed sword made of meteorites.. how much will that cost off the shelf at my local druid sanctioned "kosher" weapon smith? If the society of Celtic folks (all of the modern UK, most of modern France and into German grounds.. likely some into modern Spain) is advanced in your world there will be "Druid approved" weapons dealers...

The simple fix is a short explanation, in game terms, and increased cost for "metal weapons" or whatever game penalty is deemed correct.. or give druids a reduced weapons list like in the days of old or only wood weapons.. but until the short summary of weapons is detailed with game affects in some logical and direct way this is all "esoteric chit chat" - as good as it is... Looks like a topic for "Issue 7 of the PH".

Captain_K wrote:But it matters little until there is a note explaining this in game terms.. aka the affects of copper or bronze or flint weapons in the game,

Common sense can fill in for most GM's when using inferior material for weapons and the like. Simple minuses for most stuff. Same way we old GM's have done for decades. I'm sure that you younger ones can buck up and get creative too...

I've had to do this too since about 1979 so I can always do this, but having to again and again explain and rule and decide gets annoying... if the authors are going to get all flowery in the front, then make sure the game mechanics support the thought process.. It would have taken them a few sentences.

Off the cuff: "All druid weapons which are typically forged steel weapons but are instead made of wood do half damage relative to their steel counter parts and must be replaced after 50 blows (hit or miss)" or simpler still "All druid metallic weapons must be purchased from druid approved cold metal smiths and are 10x more expensive than book noted metal weapons.". that makes it easy..

So, Now that you started this excellent chat, please share your "house rules" to address the little lovelies you found hidden up front in the Druid that likely 90% of us have over looked?

Captain_K wrote: Off the cuff: "All druid weapons which are typically forged steel weapons but are instead made of wood do half damage relative to their steel counter parts and must be replaced after 50 blows (hit or miss)"

??? They wouldn't make them out of wood. They would be made out of copper or cold forged iron. A wooden sword would be useless.

Arduin wrote:

Captain_K wrote: Off the cuff: "All druid weapons which are typically forged steel weapons but are instead made of wood do half damage relative to their steel counter parts and must be replaced after 50 blows (hit or miss)"

??? They wouldn't make them out of wood. They would be made out of copper or cold forged iron. A wooden sword would be useless.

Not necessarily. It just takes a bit of house rule work. My world has the Ironwood tree. It's wood with the strength of iron and holds an edge. It can also be used for armor.

Go0gleplex wrote:

Arduin wrote:

Captain_K wrote: Off the cuff: "All druid weapons which are typically forged steel weapons but are instead made of wood do half damage relative to their steel counter parts and must be replaced after 50 blows (hit or miss)"

??? They wouldn't make them out of wood. They would be made out of copper or cold forged iron. A wooden sword would be useless.

Not necessarily. It just takes a bit of house rule work. My world has the Ironwood tree. It's wood with the strength of iron and holds an edge. It can also be used for armor.

I'm talking in the normal course of events. One wouldn't use normal wood.

Didn't you see Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, that sword master used a willow switch or M Musashi got bored with his Katana and switch to a fence rail... so wood can work.. but you're right a long slender sword in normal wood would be silly, a but I was thinking more like "a spear or a wooden arrow".. but I would argue a flint tipped arrow is pretty close to steel arrow heads for most "monsters" and CnC rarely gets into the arms race of this weapon is designed against that armor...

I'm still waiting for your house rules.. does please help?

Captain_K wrote:Didn't you see Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, that sword master used a willow switch or M Musashi got bored with his Katana and switch to a fence rail... so wood can work.. but you're right a long slender sword in normal wood would be silly, a but I was thinking more like "a spear or a wooden arrow".. but I would argue a flint tipped arrow is pretty close to steel arrow heads for most "monsters" and CnC rarely gets into the arms race of this weapon is designed against that armor...

I'm still waiting for your house rules.. does please help?

Arduin's house rules are linked in his sig area.

Captain_K wrote:Didn't you see Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, that sword master used a willow switch or M Musashi got bored with his Katana and switch to a fence rail... so wood can work..

Yes, saw the movie. No, wood won't "cut it" for a sword.

Captain_K wrote:I'm still waiting for your house rules.. does please help?

Copper vs. anything better than Leather is -2 to hit & dmg. Swords bend and are useless on a natural 1. Cold iron vs. metal armor breaks on a natural 1.

Price is situational as NOBODY pre makes these "just in case a druid happens to come by". The last sword I priced for a PC Druid of cold iron was about 10X the cost of a normal steel one.

So no one thinks there would be a dwarven druid smith who cold forges the finest weapons set up next to the elfin druid smith who makes wooden weapons.. both make normal weapons from their preferred material PLUS magical ones.. they bicker at their neighboring shops but they are really the best of buddies.. Druids from far and wide keep the orders rolling in.. they were both adventuring buddies at one time but now they've retired to the mountainside forests to relax, play with their grandkids and make the perfect weapons for their fellow brothers and sisters of the wood because they were so annoyed at their weapons selections and their tendency to fail once a month.. a natural 1 would happened in calendar time way too often.. think about their global delivery system.. shape changing druids.. talk about "as the crow flies".

Captain_K wrote:So no one thinks there would be a dwarven druid smith who cold forges the finest weapons set up next to the elfin druid smith who makes wooden weapons.. both make normal weapons from their preferred material PLUS magical ones.. they bicker at their neighboring shops but they are really the best of buddies.. Druids from far and wide keep the orders rolling in.. they were both adventuring buddies at one time but now they've retired to the mountainside forests to relax, play with their grandkids and make the perfect weapons for their fellow brothers and sisters of the wood because they were so annoyed at their weapons selections and their tendency to fail once a month.. a natural 1 would happened in calendar time way too often.. think about their global delivery system.. shape changing druids.. talk about "as the crow flies".

blink, bink,

Arduin wrote:

Captain_K wrote: Off the cuff: "All druid weapons which are typically forged steel weapons but are instead made of wood do half damage relative to their steel counter parts and must be replaced after 50 blows (hit or miss)"

??? They wouldn't make them out of wood. They would be made out of copper or cold forged iron. A wooden sword would be useless.

Miyamoto Musashi would disagree , but then again he was probably 20th level.

-Mike

mgtremaine wrote:

Miyamoto Musashi would disagree , but then again he was probably 20th level.

-Mike

True. I also saw a cartoon when I was a kid where someone used a limp noodle to cut through stone.

Captain_K wrote:So no one thinks there would be a dwarven druid smith who cold forges the finest weapons set up next to the elfin druid smith who makes wooden weapons..