Troll Lord Games

As of the 6th printing of the PHB, the Paladin's ability to smite evil is still not *crystal*clear. If forum members can help me out, I would appreciate it. Please read the 6th printing's smite evil ability closely. The wording makes the number of times you can use the ability a bit ambiguous due to several sentences. Which way would you rule, and why?

I remember this topic being covered a while ago, but I thought I would revisit it.

~O

It is very clear to me. Once you say you are trying to smite evil in combat you have X number of combat rounds to make a successful smite. Which can only happen once/day.

Player's Handbook 6th printing, page 39 wrote:SMITE EVIL: Once per day, a paladin of 9th level or higher may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. Smite evil adds the paladin’s charisma modifier (if positive) to the attack roll, and deals 1 extra hit point of damage per level of the paladin. It lasts for 1 round per level of the paladin. This ability can be used once per day, and only on creatures of evil alignment.

I added emphasis to appropriate words above.

This is crystal clear to me. The paladin can invoke the ability to smite evil once per day. Once the ability is invoked, they can use it with one normal melee attack. Once the power has been invoked, the PC has 1 round per level to attempt the smite.

In my game I rule that, if the PC misses, they can attempt again for up to the number of rounds the power is active, but once they have successfully made the attack with the smite power active, the power has been used.

Upon reading, I can see why you might let them make a smite attack every round that the power is active. I do not do that because I think it would be too powerful, but I can see how a CK might interpret the text that way. This is one of the things I like about C&C - a CK can interpret the text as they see fit and it isn't in violation of the rules.

DMSamuel wrote: Upon reading, I can see why you might let them make a smite attack every round that the power is active.

It explicitly says it can only be used ONCE/day. No matter how I read it I can't see where someone would allow more than one smite a day.

Arduin wrote:

DMSamuel wrote: Upon reading, I can see why you might let them make a smite attack every round that the power is active.

It explicitly says it can only be used ONCE/day. No matter how I read it I can't see where someone would allow more than one smite a day.

Because it also says it lasts for 1 round per level. I read that as meaning that the paladin has the opportunity to make and succeed with a single smite attack within those rounds. However, I can easily see how someone could read it as meaning that the paladin can make one smite attack in each of the rounds the power is active.

That is, yes the smite power can be used once per day, but within that use is x number of rounds in which a single smite attack can take place and succeed.

It really comes down to how the CK envisions the power. Is it a limited period of time in which one single successful attack can be made, and that is the smite? Or is it a power that is active for a specific amount of time in which the paladin can smite evil creatures?

Saying it is active once per day - does that mean you can only make one successful attack per day, or does it mean that you have one limited amount of time in which you can smite foes, and since that is multiple rounds, you can make one attack per round?


As I said, I read it the same as you do, but I am trying to explain how another person could interpret it as something else.

I'll attempt to end this argument:

I play a Dwarf Paladin (Gunther, The Shield of the West, Lord of Magdul Holme, Seeker of Firstholme). I talked to Steve about the Paladin's abilities, which lead to the change in the newest printing. So, this is the way WE play it in Steve's game.

The Paladin can invoke Smite Evil once per day. It lasts a number of rounds equal to his level. During the duration, any and all attacks against an applicable opponent gain all the abilities listed in the ability (i.e +CHR bonus to hit, + level to damage). So a 10th level paladin with a 17 CHR would get a +2 to hit and a +10 to damage for ten rounds against Evil creatures.

Of course since this has been implemented, Steve has dropped an inordinate number of neutral opponents on us...

AGNKim wrote:I'll attempt to end this argument:

I play a Dwarf Paladin (Gunther, The Shield of the West, Lord of Magdul Holme, Seeker of Firstholme). I talked to Steve about the Paladin's abilities, which lead to the change in the newest printing. So, this is the way WE play it in Steve's game.

The Paladin can invoke Smite Evil once per day. It lasts a number of rounds equal to his level. During the duration, any and all attacks against an applicable opponent gain all the abilities listed in the ability (i.e +CHR bonus to hit, + level to damage). So a 10th level paladin with a 17 CHR would get a +2 to hit and a +10 to damage for ten rounds against Evil creatures.

Of course since this has been implemented, Steve has dropped an inordinate number of neutral opponents on us...

So it kind of makes you a ranger, but against evil, for an entire combat. Excellent. I think this is a great expansion of this ability, which I always found too weak in the previous versions.

So it's once per day for a period of rounds = to Paladin's level.

That's BADASS!

And much improved, IMO, because once / day is just weak.

I've never found it to be too weak the way I use it. But I also like to torture my players and keep them struggling

I have to side with the folks on the multiple attacks within the time and only doing THAT once per day. If a 10th level paladin with a 17 CHR gets one single hit at +2 to hit and a +10 to damage against Evil creatures and that's it its a kind of weak power, not bad but not amazing or even on par with other PC (the Ranger note is perfect). The once a day for 10 round is much nicer.. and as noted it is only against evil which is likely the majority but not all creatures.

Great discussion, excellent input, got a paladin PC in the group now so the thread is great for he and I, but it will be a while before he's smiting anything but his own shield.

Relaxo wrote:So it's once per day for a period of rounds = to Paladin's level.

That's BADASS!

And much improved, IMO, because once / day is just weak.

Rgr that

Captain_K wrote:I have to side with the folks on the multiple attacks within the time and only doing THAT once per day. If a 10th level paladin with a 17 CHR gets one single hit at +2 to hit and a +10 to damage against Evil creatures and that's it its a kind of weak power, not bad but not amazing or even on par with other PC (the Ranger note is perfect). The once a day for 10 round is much nicer.. and as noted it is only against evil which is likely the majority but not all creatures.

Great discussion, excellent input, got a paladin PC in the group now so the thread is great for he and I, but it will be a while before he's smiting anything but his own shield.

From a design standpoint, I agree, but I find this interpretation hard to square with the "one attack" clause.

DMSamuel wrote:
Saying it is active once per day - does that mean you can only make one successful attack per day,

It doesn't state that it is active 1/day. It can be USED once per day. Only ONE time. Not MORE than one time.

Mark Hall wrote:

Captain_K wrote:I have to side with the folks on the multiple attacks within the time and only doing THAT once per day. If a 10th level paladin with a 17 CHR gets one single hit at +2 to hit and a +10 to damage against Evil creatures and that's it its a kind of weak power, not bad but not amazing or even on par with other PC (the Ranger note is perfect). The once a day for 10 round is much nicer.. and as noted it is only against evil which is likely the majority but not all creatures.

Great discussion, excellent input, got a paladin PC in the group now so the thread is great for he and I, but it will be a while before he's smiting anything but his own shield.

From a design standpoint, I agree, but I find this interpretation hard to square with the "one attack" clause.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the "one normal melee attack" means either. Maybe it's an attempt to prevent the smite evil attack stacking with other specialised attacks, or stacking with haste, etc.

Perhaps the description should be "once per day, a Paladin of 9th level or above has the ability to smite evil. This allows the paladin to add a +Chr bonus to hit and +level to damage to melee attacks against evil creatures for a number of rounds equal to the Paladin's level"

Hmmm. Time will tell if a re-wording is in order for PHB 7!

Quick re-read and I'm changing camps, the "with one normal melee attack" kind of kills its multiple use. But to be fair to all, its wording is not ideal. Explaining something you "know" in words to others who do not know and may "want" to read it a multitude of ways is NOT easy. So I'm with tylermo, next edition, make it crystal clear and run it by Arduin and Treebore to word dual until they're happy that no one could possibly confuse it... but then, could not the troll be sitting back laughing at us all racking up Dr P bet's on how many folks they've confused and what camps of followers they have created? I'm beginning to think they must have great fun when they see this sort of thread....

Captain_K wrote:Quick re-read and I'm changing camps, the "with one normal melee attack" kind of kills its multiple use. But to be fair to all, its wording is not ideal. Explaining something you "know" in words to others who do not know and may "want" to read it a multitude of ways is NOT easy. So I'm with tylermo, next edition, make it crystal clear and run it by Arduin and Treebore to word dual until they're happy that no one could possibly confuse it... but then, could not the troll be sitting back laughing at us all racking up Dr P bet's on how many folks they've confused and what camps of followers they have created? I'm beginning to think they must have great fun when they see this sort of thread....

Irony.

Captain_K wrote: but then, could not the troll be sitting back laughing at us all racking up Dr P bet's on how many folks they've confused and what camps of followers they have created? I'm beginning to think they must have great fun when they see this sort of thread....

Of course that's the case. You know that trolls don't watch TV or read for entertainment.

Arduin wrote:

Captain_K wrote: but then, could not the troll be sitting back laughing at us all racking up Dr P bet's on how many folks they've confused and what camps of followers they have created? I'm beginning to think they must have great fun when they see this sort of thread....

Of course that's the case. You know that trolls don't watch TV or read for entertainment.

AGNKim wrote:

Arduin wrote:

Captain_K wrote: but then, could not the troll be sitting back laughing at us all racking up Dr P bet's on how many folks they've confused and what camps of followers they have created? I'm beginning to think they must have great fun when they see this sort of thread....

Of course that's the case. You know that trolls don't watch TV or read for entertainment.

See! They don't even know that it is missing the sound component.

Kim, where did you get that Fred M. Rogers footage?