Troll Lord Games

The whole bit on the dragon slayer and random and changing got me thinking of a magic item that changes, matures, or gains powers and abilities with time/use/user lvl etc... a magic item the grows and changes, randomly or based on events.. thoughts?

I'm thinking like the PC grows could magic items, especially sentient ones.. they grow.. might be on a slow scale like the life cycle of a magic sword, 1,000 or 10,000 of years or not.. anyway.. just an odd thought line.

Need not be +1, then +2... to +10, but +1 then gains a +1 vs white dragons in some event then floats in water all of a sudden, then turns black when near poison, etc. etc.

Anyone got thoughts, examples, for or against?

Flip side is one that peaks in power THEN starts to decline also and finally when back to a normal sword rusts and falls apart.. the whole "life cycle".

Could be a great set of random tables buried in here some place..

Cheers, Capt K

Actually an article in one of the old Dragon Magazines from the early 90's where they talked about this, normal weapons acquiring powers. Then again you could also end up with tsugumomo type weapons and items. This could be great fun when your heirloom sword suddenly turns into a young guy and starts chewing you out for not oiling him well enough.

Also some examples of 'growth' weapons and such in several japanese light novels that are rather interesting. One such is a dagger forged by Hephaestus and given to a follow of Hestia. The knife is useless to anyone but a follower of Hestia and scales its power with that of its user.

An example of a declining weapon, kind of, is from a book called the Misenchanted Sword by Lawrence-Watt Evans. Sword has to kill an intelligent being once drawn...and will kill 99 unerringly, but the 100th will be the user. Next guy only gets 98...etc.

If it fits the story and doesn't get too overboard, I'm all for stuff like this.

Go0gleplex wrote:
....

An example of a declining weapon, kind of, is from a book called the Misenchanted Sword by Lawrence-Watt Evans. Sword has to kill an intelligent being once drawn...and will kill 99 unerringly, but the 100th will be the user. Next guy only gets 98...etc.

....

I love that book!

For maturing items, you know my stance, ... Love them!

I wish more GMs did their items that way!

That said, I would say it needs to fit the story and history of the character, and the story arch that the game will be taking.

Go0gleplex wrote:
.... This could be great fun when your heirloom sword suddenly turns into a young guy and starts chewing you out for not oiling him well enough.

...

If it fits the story and doesn't get too overboard, I'm all for stuff like this.

Nice ! I can picture that !!!!

I could get behind something like this. It would have to have some good story mojo going on with it.

R-

I think Earthdawn might have worked something like that. Weapons accumulated a mythology around them as they were used in various heroic actions.

Wikipedia wrote:One of the most innovative ideas in Earthdawn is how magical items work. At first, most magical items work exactly like a mundane item of the same type. As a character searches for information about the item's history, performs certain tasks relating to that history, and spends legend points to activate the item, he unlocks some of the magic in the item. As the character learns more about the item and its history, he can unlock more and more power within the item.

Each magical item, therefore, is unique by virtue of its history and the scope of its powers. For example, one magical broadsword may have only 4 magical ranks and only increases the damage of the blade. On the other hand the legendary sword Purifier, has 10 magical ranks and grants its wielder numerous powers.

Earthdawn made this somewhat integral... magic items grew more powerful with time and investment of, essentially, XP. <NINJA!>

It might be interesting to treat certain magic items as henchmen... gaining XP as you go through, and developing in power as a result of that. You can either, as with henchmen, have them get a cut of XP, or simply increase in power as your players get levels.

Indeed. I often take an Earthdawn approach and determine things which will activate or draw more powers. AD&D has this as well, such as the rings of elemental command which have one purpose / effect until something specific happens and they gain more ability. Similar concept.

I was thinking about this last night (and at other times of and on through the years) and some kind of xp expenditure could be used to activate/increase abilities of an item.

So a PC has a longsword that was a gift from his father at the start of his adventuring career. He wants to keep it using it as he goes up in level, but it's hard to pass up that +1 longsword the party just found in the dungeon. The PC can give up some of his own essence (xp), through a ritual or some such to give the sword a legendary quality.

Particulars to be figured out, of course.

R-

The Game Mechanics had a series of books out called Artifacts of the Ages. The series discusses how magic items grow with the PC over time, offering prestige classes that access the abilities, etc. The divided it into Rings, Swords, Staves, Legendary weapons, here are the cover images




Here are the links for the above:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/18316/Art ... Rings?it=1
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/18536/Art ... apons?it=1
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php? ... 1&src=FOOT
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php? ... 1&src=FOOT

I picked up a compilation version that Green Ronin and The Game Mechanics put out in print for D&D 3.5 called Artifacts of the Ages: Swords & Staves which seems to be OOP. Anyway, here is The Game Mechanics page, it has reviews and several PDF Examples for you to take a look at:

http://www.thegamemechanics.com/product ... heages.asp

Hope this helps!

Rigon wrote:I could get behind something like this. It would have to have some good story mojo going on with it.

R-

Like a paladin/knight that leaps off his horse onto the rock outcropping with a sword that glows when giants are around, and makes the first kill of the party

I never played earthdawn, so can't talk smartly about that.

As for the exp to power up, I've a mixed feeling on that. I like growing an item as the player grows. However, spending exp on it ... I don't know. Plus if someone stole the item or it is damaged/lost/destroyed, now the player that put all those exp into it is now lost the item and exp.

I don't know if this would work, but maybe trim back the magic items the character finds a bit. then after you as the DM have kept back enough items from them to justify an increase the player's item grows. Or, you could offer the player the items, of let them chose to pass and save up points or something to put into their own item (thus they are spending for it to increase, but not exp). I'm not sure if it would work ... just thinking out loud as I type ...

Rgr on the artifacts of the ages getting items that were over powered.

I've always hated...and I mean hated xp expenditure for magic items and such. NEVER use it...never will.

The mention of the paladin and sword reminds me of my friend Jerry. He gave a Holy Avenger to a relatively low level paladin once. But he passed it off as a +1 sword that glowed and 'felt right' in the Paladin's hand. Over the next couple of levels and game sessions, the paladin discovered that if he did deeds of conspicuous goodness and valor, he could unlock additional abilities and pluses for the sword. I think he was about 10th level before he got it fully unlocked. Sounds like what you were talking about there Lurker.

Go0gleplex wrote:
...The mention of the paladin and sword reminds me of my friend Jerry. He gave a Holy Avenger to a relatively low level paladin once. But he passed it off as a +1 sword that glowed and 'felt right' in the Paladin's hand. Over the next couple of levels and game sessions, the paladin discovered that if he did deeds of conspicuous goodness and valor, he could unlock additional abilities and pluses for the sword. I think he was about 10th level before he got it fully unlocked. Sounds like what you were talking about there Lurker.

Yeah, that is what I'm aiming at when I think of maturing items.

To avoid creep, as items grow in power.. things creep, I like the grows in some powers, but mainly in depth and detail. One alternate is power grows slowly as does detail, depth and cool but not powerful stuff, in time the power is traded for more depth and detail.. linked and locked..