Troll Lord Games

Traveller wrote:The other dragons, along with all the other creatures in the book with a SR of greater than 1, I don't recommend changing at all.

If you don't bump them, they will have incorrect SR scores. So, if one doesn't care about lowering the scores, don't bother changing them back.

Arduin wrote:If you don't bump them, they will have incorrect SR scores.

The Trolls don't agree, and neither do I. A creature with SR 1 HAS spell resistance, but that spell resistance is so weak that it's automatically defeated. That is not the same as having no spell resistance at all, but it seems the debate is centering on whether SR 1 is actually spell resistance or not (it is).

On a side note, changing the mechanic so only rolls greater than the spell resistance rating can affect the creature has one glaring flaw: a creature with a SR of 20. If the roll is not equal to or greater than the spell resistance rating, then creatures with a spell resistance of 20 are totally immune to magic. The d20 roll is an unmodified roll, and it's impossible to roll higher than 20 on a d20. Thus SR 20 is immune to magic, and the Mantle of Spell Resistance becomes far more powerful than it is now.

I hope that provides a rationale as to why the mechanics weren't changed, and I do hope that between my last post on the thread and this one it's a bit more clear why, with the exceptions noted previously, the SR numbers should not change.

Traveller wrote:

Arduin wrote:If you don't bump them, they will have incorrect SR scores.

The Trolls don't agree, and neither do I. A creature with SR 1 HAS spell resistance, but that spell resistance is so weak that it's automatically defeated. That is not the same as having no spell resistance at all, but it seems the debate is centering on whether SR 1 is actually spell resistance or not (it is).

On a side note, changing the mechanic so only rolls greater than the spell resistance rating can affect the creature has one glaring flaw: a creature with a SR of 20. If the roll is not equal to or greater than the spell resistance rating, then creatures with a spell resistance of 20 are totally immune to magic. The d20 roll is an unmodified roll, and it's impossible to roll higher than 20 on a d20. Thus SR 20 is immune to magic, and the Mantle of Spell Resistance becomes far more powerful than it is now.

I hope that provides a rationale as to why the mechanics weren't changed, and I do hope that between my last post on the thread and this one it's a bit more clear why, with the exceptions noted previously, the SR numbers should not change.

I would never allow a creature to be effectively 100% spell resistant, the best I will allow is an SR of 18. House Rules are a wonderful thing.

Traveller wrote:

Arduin wrote:If you don't bump them, they will have incorrect SR scores.

The Trolls don't agree, and neither do I.

"The Trolls" already agreed with me when they made the change to "equal or greater" roll in 2012.

In any event, math isn't something agreed or disagreed with. (either a spell has a 1 in 20 chance of failure or, it doesn't)

Treebore wrote: I would never allow a creature to be effectively 100% spell resistant, the best I will allow is an SR of 18. House Rules are a wonderful thing.

Remember back in 1st Ed the listed %'s were vs. an 11th level caster?. For every caster level higher it knocked 5% off of the resistance. The reverse was true for every level below 11th.

Arduin wrote:

Treebore wrote: I would never allow a creature to be effectively 100% spell resistant, the best I will allow is an SR of 18. House Rules are a wonderful thing.

Remember back in 1st Ed the listed %'s were vs. an 11th level caster?. For every caster level higher it knocked 5% off of the resistance. The reverse was true for every level below 11th.

Yep, I remember.

Ah, so glad that I had absolutely no input on this as it was one area where I was specifically told to not provide any numbers / conversion as, at that time, how SR worked was still in the air and debates raged about whether it would be a standard SIEGE check (or similar) or would remain a flat (static) type and break against the "rules."

Personally, I think it should work something like a regular SIEGE check. Base 11. Any creature with a listed SR adds to that. The caster adds their spell's level and their caster level but not attribute mod. So, something like d20 + spell level + caster level >= 11 + SR.

But that's just me.

serleran wrote:Ah, so glad that I had absolutely no input on this as it was one area where I was specifically told to not provide any numbers / conversion as, at that time, how SR worked was still in the air and debates raged about whether it would be a standard SIEGE check (or similar) or would remain a flat (static) type and break against the "rules."

Yes, that is evident. Monsters were ported straight over without adjustment for using the Siege Engine. Hence the now inaccurate (when comparing to original monsters) SR figures.