Creating Scrolls and Brewing Potions

[Snoring Rock]

Ok so I have PC's approaching the right level in order to write their own scrolls and brew potions. The M&T states that it costs 100gp per spell level of the scroll (spell) to create. That works since the price for a 1st level scroll is 300gp in the M&T. So it costs 100gp to create and should it be sold, it would fetch 300gp. Ok.

So this is where it gets funky. According the the M&T a 1st level potion would cost 200gp (200gp per spell level) and a lab to work in. So a second level spell in the form of a potion should be 400gp (2x200gp). But the cost for said potion on market, if there were one, is 400gp. The maker does not get much profit. How about "bless", that is 1st level so it would cost 200gp to produce and sells for 300gp. The maker nets 100gp. But Clairaudience/Clairvoyance costs 500gp on the market, but costs 600gp to produce. That is a loss. Maybe I missed something. Maybe cost was for a batch? How any in a batch?

Has anyone run into this? I do not have a lot of magic items floating around in my campaigns, but I do use potions and scrolls quite a bit. I like expendable magic. How did you handle it? I was thinking of just going all 3.x rules and just saying half the price equals the cost. I like that scrolls have less margin since it takes a caster to use them. Potions should cost more since they can be used universally.

Any thoughts on this? Is it erratta? Just some Troll Lord editing?

[Arduin]

Has anyone run into this?

No because I always set prices by supply and demand. Something that is impossible for a rulebook to calculate. Getting pricing (what an item sells for) out of a book is a huge mistake. Just calc the cost to make; and then, set sale price based on conditions in your game world.

[Lord Dynel]

So this is where it gets funky. According the the M&T a 1st level potion would cost 200gp (200gp per spell level) and a lab to work in. So a second level spell in the form of a potion should be 400gp (2x200gp). But the cost for said potion on market, if there were one, is 400gp. The maker does not get much profit. How about "bless", that is 1st level so it would cost 200gp to produce and sells for 300gp. The maker nets 100gp. But Clairaudience/Clairvoyance costs 500gp on the market, but costs 600gp to produce. That is a loss. Maybe I missed something. Maybe cost was for a batch? How any in a batch?

Emphasis mine.

Where are you coming up with "market" price, Rock? Your example of the Clairaudience/Clairvoyance potion of 500gp...is that from the potion table? If so, reread page 131 of M&T, notably...

The gold piece values in the magic item tables are typical selling prices for PCs wishing to get rid of magic items and do not necessarily reflect the actual cost of creating the item.

So the selling price is 500gp according to the table. If you have a finished product you're trying to offload and you don't need that Clairaudience/Clairvoyance potion, a buyer might offer you 500 gp. Now, if you made it, you might invest 600 gp of materials to create it, which is also true. But these two aren't mutually exclusive.

A potion vendor might sell the Clairaudience/Clairvoyance he created (for 600 gp) for 800 gp. Or 1,000. Or 750. But he's gonna buy yours for 500gp. I've got a picture of those pawn shop reality show guys where the dude says he might be able to sell something for $500, but he's only going to give you $50 bucks for it...

[Treebore]

Potion Making Rules:

You can make one "batch" in a weeks time. There are two limiting factors for each batch. First, you can never make more than 10 doses per batch. The other limiting factor is how many times you can cast the given spell you are turning into a potion in a single day. So if you can cast only 4 Fly spells in a given day, you can only make 4 doses at one time. Cost is 25% of book cost to buy per dose. For spells not covered in the books, determine it with the following formula, spell level x 100 gp + 200 gp.

SCROLLS

For Scrolls, if you can cast it, and its in your spell book, you can make a scroll, at a cost of 50 GP/spell level up to third, then at a cost of 100 GP per level there after. Since I presume the scroll spell is much like the spell in anyones spell book, the scroll is cast at the level of the user, and a SIEGE check only needs to be made if the spell is beyond the users level to cast, and then it operates at the minimum level required to cast the spell. Unless, of course, the user is a higher level. Then a SIEGE check wouldn't need to be made anyways. Writing the scroll takes the same amount of time for a spell of that level to be put into your spell book.

Scrolls are generally sold at 3 times the cost of making, so 150 GP/level 1 to 3, and 300 GP per level at 4th and above. Prices may vary based upon sellers perceptions at the time of sale, as is true of any such transaction with any item.

[Snoring Rock]

Potion Making Rules:

You can make one "batch" in a weeks time. There are two limiting factors for each batch. First, you can never make more than 10 doses per batch. The other limiting factor is how many times you can cast the given spell you are turning into a potion in a single day. So if you can cast only 4 Fly spells in a given day, you can only make 4 doses at one time. Cost is 25% of book cost to buy per dose. For spells not covered in the books, determine it with the following formula, spell level x 100 gp + 200 gp.

SCROLLS

For Scrolls, if you can cast it, and its in your spell book, you can make a scroll, at a cost of 50 GP/spell level up to third, then at a cost of 100 GP per level there after. Since I presume the scroll spell is much like the spell in anyones spell book, the scroll is cast at the level of the user, and a SIEGE check only needs to be made if the spell is beyond the users level to cast, and then it operates at the minimum level required to cast the spell. Unless, of course, the user is a higher level. Then a SIEGE check wouldn't need to be made anyways. Writing the scroll takes the same amount of time for a spell of that level to be put into your spell book.

Scrolls are generally sold at 3 times the cost of making, so 150 GP/level 1 to 3, and 300 GP per level at 4th and above. Prices may vary based upon sellers perceptions at the time of sale, as is true of any such transaction with any item.

Seems reasonable and stays balanced within the "market" price in the book. I agree with LD above, in letting that be what it is and moving forward. But I like this house rule as well.

So have you left the brewing level at 7 for wizards and illusionists? I assume, based on the test, that you allow any level to write scrolls. I can dig it. It does eat up PC resources.

[serleran]

I use my own system for magic item creation, allowing the PC to begin at level 1 having the possibility though not necessarily the funds or equipment. That significantly alters the costs.

[Treebore]

Potion Making Rules:

You can make one "batch" in a weeks time. There are two limiting factors for each batch. First, you can never make more than 10 doses per batch. The other limiting factor is how many times you can cast the given spell you are turning into a potion in a single day. So if you can cast only 4 Fly spells in a given day, you can only make 4 doses at one time. Cost is 25% of book cost to buy per dose. For spells not covered in the books, determine it with the following formula, spell level x 100 gp + 200 gp.

SCROLLS

For Scrolls, if you can cast it, and its in your spell book, you can make a scroll, at a cost of 50 GP/spell level up to third, then at a cost of 100 GP per level there after. Since I presume the scroll spell is much like the spell in anyones spell book, the scroll is cast at the level of the user, and a SIEGE check only needs to be made if the spell is beyond the users level to cast, and then it operates at the minimum level required to cast the spell. Unless, of course, the user is a higher level. Then a SIEGE check wouldn't need to be made anyways. Writing the scroll takes the same amount of time for a spell of that level to be put into your spell book.

Scrolls are generally sold at 3 times the cost of making, so 150 GP/level 1 to 3, and 300 GP per level at 4th and above. Prices may vary based upon sellers perceptions at the time of sale, as is true of any such transaction with any item.

Seems reasonable and stays balanced within the "market" price in the book. I agree with LD above, in letting that be what it is and moving forward. But I like this house rule as well.

So have you left the brewing level at 7 for wizards and illusionists? I assume, based on the test, that you allow any level to write scrolls. I can dig it. It does eat up PC resources.

Yeah, my wife and I ran a Jewelry business for 10 years, and I tend to follow our mark up practices for anything I do in a game. Even though all our competitors tended to do 400 to 600% mark ups. They went out of business, we didn't, because we had sales, and they didn't have enough. We closed our doors when my wife became disabled and unable to do the carving necessary to provide the custom jewelry we did.

[Snoring Rock]

I use my own system for magic item creation, allowing the PC to begin at level 1 having the possibility though not necessarily the funds or equipment. That significantly alters the costs.

Yes, I am developing my own now. Yes the best way to allow it but control it, is the cash flow. What 3rd level PC has a lab and the cash? I am making some market price tweaks. You gotta love C&C for utility and easy going rules set.