C&C is a Gift

[Zherbus]

I bought my 2 core books months ago and read them over until I was satisfied with the rules. I hadn't got a chance to play a session until this past week. We started out rocky since we wanted to play BtB to get a proper feel for the system before altering it. We had to look up and double check lots of things.

Once we had gotten more comfortable, the system took a total backseat to the adventure. SEIGE is ingenius. Everything flowed, and nothing stopped for complex calculations. There are a few things about the system I found unclear until I read deeper after the game to see if we had played correctly.

1) No RoF for missile weapons. I think we're going to adopt a houserule I read on Dragonsfoot about using the two-weapon fighting if certain missile weapons (bows, throwing daggers, etc) are to be used twice in a round.

2) The biggest question my friend had was "this SEIGE thing is nice, but what makes a thief worth playing if a fighter can do all the stuff he can do". Before I could find a passage on this, I ruled that he'd have to roll against his ability (either 12 for prime or 18 for non-prime), adjusted by difficulty and would not include level as thieves would get. That's pretty much what the PHB said, but also urged me to double think allowing this at all in some cases.

3) Some monsters who have had more than 1 attack/round in AD&D had only one. Seemed to work just fine though (so far).

Overall, we were really pleased. Our normal game is AD&D2e, and the idea that we can pirate NWP's, monsters, adventures, or whatever else we've used over the years is very appealing.

Also, it's my first post here. I run ADnDCampaigns and am lucky enough to have Peter, serleran, and traveller as visitors to answer my newb questions over there. I've lurked here for a bit as well.

Cheers,

Z

[gideon_thorne]

Welcome to the madhouse. ^_^
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[serleran]

Glad to see you've picked up the game. Welcome. Any questions will be answered, as best they can be. May your Crusade be long!

[Dristram]

Welcome to the Crusade!
btw, I impliment the ROF from 1e AD&D myself.

[irda ranger]

Welcome to the Crusade. 8)
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[Rigon]

As a great American author once wrote, "Welcome to the Monkey House." Enjoy the Crusade.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

[moriarty777]

Welcome to the Crusade!

With regards to ROF... If you go BtB, it works like every other weapon (meaning 1 attack per round). However, the rule on Dragonsfoot you mention works VERY well. I have adopted this myself with a couple exceptions. Things like crossbows I don't allow more than a shot per round. In fact, I still only allow a Heavy Crossbow to do a shot once every two rounds (it takes a round to reload).

In terms of skills, there are a few of easy ways you can go with this:

1) As is... just keep in mind that a class like a fighter does not add level to the check where the thief does.

2) A thief may actually make a second attempt (in certain situations) to do certain things such as picking a lock... not anyone else

3) Give a penalty to those other classes attempting a skill from a different class or just don't allow them.

The book advocates that only classes with those class skills should be able to do it but does mention what I've outlined in option 1.

Moriarty the Red
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[Omote]

Welcome, welcome. As you have now played the game and the questions are clear in your mind, you can easily go back to the PHB to find the answer. As you know, there are always these kind of things that come up during game play, but will reveal themselves as you sit back and page through the rules again.

............................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[Julian Grimm]

Welcome to the nuthouse!
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The Lord of Ravens
My blog

[sieg]

Welcome....and yes, I do AD&D RoF myself.
Skills, pretty well covered above by MtR. I'd add that any class attempting Thie...er..."Rogue" skills can at best mimic a poor second of the ability. For instance, a Fighter can pick a pocket, but even if he succeeds the victim (IMO) gets another check to see if they'd been picked as the Fighter just doesn't have the same skill as the Rogue. Same with moving silently, hiding in shadows, etc. It can be done by another, but its a LOT harder to do.

Just IMC of course,
Mike
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Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

[Julian Grimm]

Yggsburgh has a skill system in it. I haven't used it but some here really like it.
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[Dragonhelm]

Zherbus wrote:
1) No RoF for missile weapons. I think we're going to adopt a houserule I read on Dragonsfoot about using the two-weapon fighting if certain missile weapons (bows, throwing daggers, etc) are to be used twice in a round.

Got a link?

Quote:
2) The biggest question my friend had was "this SEIGE thing is nice, but what makes a thief worth playing if a fighter can do all the stuff he can do".

Thing is, a fighter wouldn't be adding his class levels into the roll. So maybe he's got a natural knack for picking pockets, but he's not trained. Maybe he's a bit of a swashbuckler, but he's not a trained burglar. A rogue would add his class levels in.

Take a kender from Dragonlance, for example. Not all kender are rogues. While they all have a certain knack for picking pockets, a kender fighter, priest, etc. isn't going to be as talented at it.

Quote:
Overall, we were really pleased. Our normal game is AD&D2e, and the idea that we can pirate NWP's, monsters, adventures, or whatever else we've used over the years is very appealing.

I think the customization factor is one of the things that appeals to me the most too. For example, I've used the AD&D Arms and Equipment Guide in my game alongside a simplified variant of the 3e skills system. It works out pretty well.
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Trampas Whiteman
---DragonHelm--->
Dragonlance Nexus

[Birthright]

Dragonhelm wrote:
Got a link?

You probably don't need one. Basically, for multiple shots from a bow or thrown daggers, you use the rules from the PHB for fighting with two (melee) weapons, i.e. -3 to hit with the first shot and -6 with the second, modified by dex modifier as usual.

[sieg]

Hey Birthright, hadn't noticed you over here before! Welcome!
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Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

[Birthright]

sieg wrote:
Hey Birthright, hadn't noticed you over here before! Welcome!

That's because I've been lurking quietly in the shadows! *adds avatar to profile* ... that might make things more obvious.

Thanks for the welcome, sieg.

I got myself a C&C PHB(2), M&T and the blacktooth ridge module. I really like the system, cleans up a lot of 2e crud that always irked me. I currently play in a 2e game, but if I ever run a Birthright campaign (or even a one-shot) again, it'll be with C&C.

[Omote]

Ah BR, an awesome system with an awesome setting. Best wishes on getting that campaign up and running one day.

.........................................Omote

FPQ
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