New to C & C and a Question

pineappleleader · Post by **pineappleleader** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:54 am

Hi Everyone:

I'm new to C & C. Just picked up a PHB (2nd) and some Character Record Sheets. I also ordered an M & T Book. But it won't be here for a week or two. ( There are none available "West of the Pecos", so it has to come from back East.).

I am really impressed with the PHB. Nice clean layout and great artwork. But the print is small (I am an older fellow) and there are lots of typos and errata. I did pick up the free Errata - a big help.

Speaking of Errata; I have a question:

PHB (2nd), page 17, Poison Table. BLACK HELLEBORE lists the same effect and damage for both "Save" and "Failed". Should not the effect and damage be less if you Save? Is it correct as listed? If not, does anyone know what the correction is?

Castles and Crusades looks like a really great game. Glad I found it.

Cheers,

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:09 am

There is no errata for the poisons, that I have noticed. I wrote them, so I'll see what the original text says when I get home. Black hellebore is nasty stuff. Technically, it should not give a save (at least when taken in a dose that would be impactful; others are of a similar nature as well, but some were not printed...) but some people feel that is "cheating."

Then again, some people don't like the costs, either... but seeing as they're based directly on the poison tables from M&T, they are correct as-is.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:23 am

Well, point out any problems you find that aren't on the errata. The PH is going to have its 3rd printing in a few months, with the M&T having its second printing not long after that.

Welcome to the Crusade!

pineappleleader · Post by **pineappleleader** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:26 am

Thank You, both.

"violent sneezing and 1D6 damage" sounds pretty mild to me. Perhaps it should say "violent sneezing and 1D6 damage per minute (hour?) until death occurs". I am unfamiliar with the real-world effects of poisons, so will take your word for it, that Black Hellebore is nasty stuff and should have no save. As written, the entry is a bit unclear.

Sounds like there is more information in the M & T. Hopefully I will have a copy within a week or two.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:33 am

Not for that poison specifically. There are other poisons in the M&T.

Besides, the first rule of C&C is "Do it your way." So until errata is officially done there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing it the way you mention in your post.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:31 am

Ahh, I see the problem now. The PHB does not seem to indicate that black hellebore is a powder, and not eaten. Eaten, it is a powerful narcotic, and can kill things (historically, cows and the like regularly died from eating it), but it was also used medicinally, as were many herbs... as a purgative. In fact, it used to be called Melampodium (or somesuch thing).

Anyway... umm, the damage as written is correct.

As for the font size: sorry, but the font was reduced to accomodate pagecount, which in turn affects price. If a larger font were used, say at 10 point, the number of pages would increase by about 30-60 pages (roughly guessing), and that might make the book go up in price, say, by about $5-7.50 (again, guessing.) At a higher font (10 is kinda small, too) he numbers would be bigger, and I'm sure the Trolls wanted to keep the book at a decent price range... and, sort of look like AD&D (the fonts of my 1e books are pretty small, too.)

pineappleleader · Post by **pineappleleader** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:16 am

serleran wrote:
Ahh, I see the problem now. The PHB does not seem to indicate that black hellebore is a powder, and not eaten. Eaten, it is a powerful narcotic, and can kill things (historically, cows and the like regularly died from eating it), but it was also used medicinally, as were many herbs... as a purgative. In fact, it used to be called Melampodium (or somesuch thing).

Anyway... umm, the damage as written is correct.

It does say it is inhaled. As both results are the same, you, in effect, get no saving throw.

But if all you take is "violent sneezing and 1d6 damage" it is more of an annoinance than a real danger to any but the weaker 1st level PC's and NPC's.

Quote:
As for the font size: sorry, but the font was reduced to accomodate pagecount, which in turn affects price. If a larger font were used, say at 10 point, the number of pages would increase by about 30-60 pages (roughly guessing), and that might make the book go up in price, say, by about $5-7.50 (again, guessing.) At a higher font (10 is kinda small, too) he numbers would be bigger, and I'm sure the Trolls wanted to keep the book at a decent price range... and, sort of look like AD&D (the fonts of my 1e books are pretty small, too.)

This was not a complaint. It was just an observation. The printing is well done and the font is an easy one to read. Yes; the old 1E AD&D books were all in small fonts.(But I was 30 years younger then and had better eyesight ).

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:31 am

Yeah, my point was that an inhaled dose of black hellebore is not as nasty as an ingested one. The rest still stands, though.

sieg · Post by **sieg** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:42 pm

Greetings, and Welcome!

Yeah, I tend to use poisons as either a CON damage or a "Save or Die" type effect. Maybe a leftover from my B/Ex days.
Wasn't the first printing PHB a larger font? True it didn't have quite as much info (no poisons, for example)? Some of my group complained a bit at the 2nd print smaller font but then we're all in our 30s too.
I dont' know if you caught it on the site, but there's a free Monster pdf download as well to tide you over until you get your M&T. Also, if you check c&cplayer.net there's a treasure file as well. Not as detailed as the one in M&T of course (its basically the one from the collectors box set) but it certainly gets you by.
_________________
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

Dristram · Post by **Dristram** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:00 pm

First, welcome to the Crusade pineappleleader! Second...

serleran wrote:
Yeah, my point was that an inhaled dose of black hellebore is not as nasty as an ingested one. The rest still stands, though.

Where is the ingested info located?

irda ranger · Post by **irda ranger** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:40 pm

Quote:
Well, point out any problems you find that aren't on the errata. The PH is going to have its 3rd printing in a few months, with the M&T having its second printing not long after that.

Really? Where'd you hear that? First I've heard of it ....

(going to need a second PHB for the wife, probably, so this could be worth waiting for...)
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Check out my Iron C&C House Rules: The Tombs of Akrasia

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:41 pm

I have nothing to offer, save a hearty welcome to the Crusades. May your steel never break.

............................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

pineappleleader · Post by **pineappleleader** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:06 pm

Thanks to Everybody.

sieg wrote:
Greetings, and Welcome!

I dont' know if you caught it on the site, but there's a free Monster pdf download as well to tide you over until you get your M&T.

Got it. Lots of great monsters. Thanks.

sieg wrote:
Also, if you check c&cplayer.net there's a treasure file as well. Not as detailed as the one in M&T of course (its basically the one from the collectors box set) but it certainly gets you by.

The only thing I saw was a download for M & T Errata.

But...Not to worry. The M & T wil be here soon. I can always loot some of the less overpowered treasures out of an old D & D book.

If I really get impatient, the C & C Intro Pack on RPGNOW.COM seems a good deal.

What is the best official C & C starting adventure available in PDF? I want to play thur it to learn the game.