Troll Lord Games

How do you view the average power level of the worlds you rpg in? It is understandable that there are planes of great power, but on average, what is the average level of your world? I was thinking about and given the chance to rpg in my "perfect" world, the average person/monster is going to range from 1 to 5. Anyone of a higher level would be extremely driven and would be extremely rare. Granted, I view pc's as ordinary people who do extraordinary things.

What about you. What is the average "level" of the world in which you thrust your pc's?

jdizzy001 wrote:How do you view the average power level of the worlds you rpg in? It is understandable that there are planes of great power, but on average, what is the average level of your world? I was thinking about and given the chance to rpg in my "perfect" world, the average person/monster is going to range from 1 to 5. Anyone of a higher level would be extremely driven and would be extremely rare. Granted, I view pc's as ordinary people who do extraordinary things.

What about you. What is the average "level" of the world in which you thrust your pc's?

The vast majority of the population in my campaign worlds are 0-level folks too busy trying to make enough for themselves and their families to go off getting killed adventuring.

PCs are a different breed, of course. Name level PCs (9th-11th) are rare, the movers-and-shakers of the campaign world.

I have run games in the Forgotten Realms before and that world tends to be the exception where politicians and important NPCs are generally ridiculous levels. Even the local head of the militia might be 10th level. But that is the exception. It comes from campaign sources more-so than my desires.

Ordinarily I run plenty of World of Greyhawk campaigns. With Greyhawk the most powerful people can indeed be only 4th level or less or even non-heroic (0-level) guys. Over time with different editions and publishers some of the Greyhawk NPCs have crept up in levels (I have noticed this mainly with clerics and wizards) but for the most part they remain lower levels if they have levels at all. This suits me fine. I would say the average person is definitely under 5th level if they even have a class.

It reminds me once when I first starting DMing I had designed a small campaign setting around a large inland lake or sea. It was all home-brew and done under mostly 1st edition rules. I made my own encounter tables and all that when preparing for it. On one of the town encounter tables was "Rude Drunk Kids". It came up once and a cocky fighter played by teenage player seemed so insulted that he attacked one of the kids/teenagers. He killed him in one blow. He couldn't get over it for a while. It was a lesson to him that ordinary people only have a few hit points and are quite fragile.

jdizzy001 wrote:How do you view the average power level of the worlds you rpg in? It is understandable that there are planes of great power, but on average, what is the average level of your world? I was thinking about and given the chance to rpg in my "perfect" world, the average person/monster is going to range from 1 to 5. Anyone of a higher level would be extremely driven and would be extremely rare. Granted, I view pc's as ordinary people who do extraordinary things.

What about you. What is the average "level" of the world in which you thrust your pc's?

My campaigns generally are on the short side, with characters starting at 1st level and rising to about 6th to 10th level before we wrap things up. With this in mind, the worlds I use tend to be relatively low-powered. The major Movers and Shakers of the World are generally 10th to 15th level and only found in the largest cities. Villages might count a 5th level NPC as the Captain of the Watch and there might be a few hedge mages here or there, but most of the classed NPCs will be as you described: 1st to 5th level, with a few outliers here or there. Under this assumption, for example, there are very few high level clerics capable of casting raise/resurrection and these sort of services are only available by traveling to the metropolis areas and gaining the favor of the High Priest/Priestess. This also makes gaining new spells more challenging as well. Your best bet will be to find scrolls in a hoard somewhere, not getting one of the few Archmages to sell you a scroll. 1st to 3rd level spells might be available for purchase. Anything higher than that, not so much.

The vast majority (99%) of people are 0-level, making even a 1st level adventurer exceptional. By the time PCs reach 5th level, they are well-established heroes and likely making waves in the World.

jdizzy001 wrote:How do you view the average power level of the worlds you rpg in? It is understandable that there are planes of great power, but on average, what is the average level of your world? I was thinking about and given the chance to rpg in my "perfect" world, the average person/monster is going to range from 1 to 5. Anyone of a higher level would be extremely driven and would be extremely rare. Granted, I view pc's as ordinary people who do extraordinary things.

What about you. What is the average "level" of the world in which you thrust your pc's?

0 level would be the average considering the entire populace. I really hate the idea of Ranger children, Wizard barkeeps, et al. EGG got it right when he made pretty much everyone in the world without a character class. AKA, 0 level. It was best stated in the 2nd Ed DMG under: Class, Level, and the Common Man

I have no idea what the average is if only counting Classed people/persons/monsters/NPCs.

I prefer a lower level world for sure. However, there will still be a few middle level NPCs that may assist the party from time to time.

I've been thinking about this for a while – for my home brew – what I came up with is the vast majority of the people are 0 level, with maybe an ability or 2 of a specific class. However, there are people with classes/levels. I look at them like this, If you are famously/infamously know in, or their actions impact, a small area (county, city section) then they are 1 -2 maybe 3rd level. A larger region (area/multiple counties, throughout a city) they are 3 – 4 maybe 5th. The next step is an area the size of a state to a whole region is 5th - 6th maybe 7th. Country wide is 7th – 8th. Very few indeed will be above 5th level.

Also, in special situations a significantly lower character will have wide spread effect – a prince or duke's son for example being only a 3rd or 4th level knight would still have nation wide effects despite their lower level. However, there is a flip side where a high level character – say a veteran fighter that served 20+ years, fought in multiple campaigns in multiple areas and became a centurion legionnaire and is 7th level – can be living quietly in a back woods village trying to mind his own business but protects the area.

Warunsun wrote:I have run games in the Forgotten Realms before and that world tends to be the exception where politicians and important NPCs are generally ridiculous levels. Even the local head of the militia might be 10th level. But that is the exception. It comes from campaign sources more-so than my desires.

...

Now that is what I hate about FR. I loved the setting, but it annoyed me that every rock you kicked over had a 5th level or higher character under it.

Most folks die before age 40.. most are simple farmers, tough but 1d8 or less. Highly skilled, masters of crafts, learned folks, warriors, specialist, etc can be 1-3rd level.. only PC classes really get tough or gain levels.. I assume they are 1 in 100 to 1000 so there is likely to be someone tough and leveled in any town, any bar, but most folks just are not above 1d6 to 1d8. I like my general guy who does hard work for a living to be tougher than book worms (mages) and likely as tough or tougher than "the little sneaky guys" (thieves). So Joe Dirt Farmer is likely d8 for me.. but the bouncer or bar owner at the local tavern is likely two to three d8 if he's not some retired adventurer... got to always keep the PCs honest and in their place... ;}

Immortal.

I've run many games in either the Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk, so they definitely skew my viewpoint of what my idea of my world make-up would be.

Arduin wrote:... in the 2nd Ed DMG under: Class, Level, and the Common Man

This is a pretty good read, if you haven't read it already. There are a few sections after that, too, that might help in determining the "power level" of your campaign world: "0-Level Characters" and "Adventurers and Society."

For me, and my homebrew world, most people are 0-level. I got a little sidetracked with "expert" "warrior" and the plethora of NPC classes that existed in d20/3.x, but it had its purpose, I suppose. Everything (PCs, monsters, NPCs) is supposed to be created in d20 using the same rules (more of less). That's the basic tenet of logic. Getting back to C&C, it's allowable to have a good blacksmith just be a good blacksmith, without being a umpteenth level anything. The those rules in the 2e DMG really speak well about to the question you have, jdizzy001. But again, for me, most people are 0-level; laborers, smiths, guards, kids, and barkeeps. There might be a few "powerful" adventurer types but they probably won't be very high - the "village wizard" might be 3rd-5th level, or the grizzled old knight might top out at 6th-7th level. Everyone else is just living life without any levels, seeing how they aren't adventurers.

That is fascinating. I always like hearing how everyone else views their world. A friend of mine views things 180 degrees different than me. Well, that isnt fair to say. He just really understands that if the pc's can do it, so can someone else. He also has magic oozing out of every corner of his worlds. In fact, you could say that our real life level of technology (meaning all pervasive and nigh unescapable) is how he views magic in his world. Its fun to change things up once in a while.

One day, i plan to run a campaign very different than my norm. Usually i am for gritty or what i have come to call fantastic realism. Very earthy but still fantasy. This other campaign would be set in the beginning ages of the world after the dawn war (the battle between the primordials and the gods). The heroes would be high leveled, balls to the walls Heroes and veterans of the war. Now that thewar is over their job is to hunt down the remaining premordials and help the new budding races thrive. They would basically be viewed as gods by the mortal realm which would cause to enter some fun moral quandries and perhaps test the loyalty of the pc's.

My game worlds has whatever NPC's at whatever level I need them to be in order to provide a fun challenge for my players, and to keep them "in line". I used to do the "almost everyone is 0 level" stuff until a certain group of players showed how easy it would be for them to take over the world. So now I don't worry about a sound probability distribution across the populace. They are whatever I need them to be whenever I need them to be "it".

I'm with Tree. The NPCs are what ever I need them to be. I've run a bunch of FR, DL, and DS in the past and they are full of high level NPCs. I don't have a problem with that. Usually, the NPCs are too busy running countries, large organizations, etc, to be bothered with dealing with small matters and such. That's where the PCs come in and how they make a name for themselves.

R-

Treebore wrote:I used to do the "almost everyone is 0 level" stuff until a certain group of players showed how easy it would be for them to take over the world.

Having 99.9% of the populace as 0 Level and PC's still not being able to take over the world is easy if one thinks on it for more than a moment. I mean unless your game world has almost no people to begin with.

Arduin wrote:

Treebore wrote:I used to do the "almost everyone is 0 level" stuff until a certain group of players showed how easy it would be for them to take over the world.

Having 99.9% of the populace as 0 Level and PC's still not being able to take over the world is easy if one thinks on it for more than a moment. I mean unless your game world has almost no people to begin with.

I presume your thinking of mob tactics? Doesn't work against people who can fly.

Treebore wrote:

Arduin wrote:

Treebore wrote:I used to do the "almost everyone is 0 level" stuff until a certain group of players showed how easy it would be for them to take over the world.

Having 99.9% of the populace as 0 Level and PC's still not being able to take over the world is easy if one thinks on it for more than a moment. I mean unless your game world has almost no people to begin with.

I presume your thinking of mob tactics? Doesn't work against people who can fly.

Not at all. Why would 20th level's use mob tactics on some errant PC's???? You're not thinking with the actual math when considering country/empire/world population.