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Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:06 am
by Ancalagon
If I'm blind and just overlooking the info please forgive me.... but I can't find anything in the CKG covering hypothermia. Is there any such info in the CKG? If so, on what page?

Thanks!

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:56 am
by tylermo
Can't remember to be honest. For that matter, is there a rule (in the ckg) governing the amount of time to put on or remove armor? Was just thinking about this the other day.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:21 am
by Captain_K
If you want way too much technical info on the topic.. I have tons.. did research on the topic as a kid with my father for the USCG.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:05 pm
by Buttmonkey
I don't know about the CKG, but Frank Mentzer put together hypothermia rules for his module "Quondam Fount".

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:38 pm
by serleran
I do not recall this information being in the CKG, but I could be wrong.

I generally wing it and require a save of some kind (probably vs. Con) before I induce a penalty to something. And at a certain penalty, it turns to save or die.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:48 pm
by Arduin
I would wing it. Most charts aren't that accurate. The USCG guidelines had me dying almost every time I went surfing without my wet suit. And I didn't swim across that Alpine lake during the spring thaw, etc. :lol:

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:13 am
by Ancalagon
Hmmm. Maybe I'll see if I can whip up something at some point and post them for review.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:31 am
by Captain_K
Hypothermia occurs when your body temperature, normally 98.5 F, falls to just 95 F. The body first shuts off blood flow to the limbs to preserve the core temp and eventually the victim dies of heart &/or respiratory system failure. Great move for survival, really bad if you're swimming.

Gaming affects:
Mild case: -3 to all rolls
Moderate case: -6 to all rolls and d3 damage/hour until death; all normal activities now require a roll to complete successfully
Sever case: -9 to all rolls and d3 damage/minute until death

Each PC in cold water or cold weather or other environment where hypothermia is possible without appropriate/reasonable clothing/magical protection must make a CON check or enter into a mild case of hypothermia.
Water immersion requires a check every round, wetting weather or extreme winds requires a check each turn, and dry cold weather each hour.
Once a mild case occurs, checks continue, with noted penalty, at noted rate, to see if they slip into a Moderate case.
Once a moderate case occurs, checks continue, with noted penalty, at noted rate, to see if they slip into a Sever case.

Any specific or specially designed clothing that protects the body from exposure/evaporation and direct wind adds +6 to CON roll.
Specific training, experience, or training with specific cold environment exposures add +3 to CON roll.
Thin characters suffer a -2 to CON roll.
Overweight characters gain a +2 to CON roll.
Naked characters suffer a -4 to their rolls.
Character with sufficient caloric reserves gain a +2 to their CON roll.

CK detailed signs & symptoms to go with above game terms for Mild hypothermia:
•Shivering
•Dizziness
•Hunger
•Nausea
•Faster breathing
•Trouble speaking
•Slight confusion
•Lack of coordination
•Fatigue
•Increased heart rate

CK detailed signs & symptoms to go with above game terms for moderate to severe hypothermia
•Shivering, although as hypothermia worsens, shivering stops
•Clumsiness or lack of coordination
•Slurred speech or mumbling
•Confusion and poor decision-making, such as trying to remove warm clothes
•Drowsiness or very low energy
•Lack of concern about one's condition
•Progressive loss of consciousness
•Weak pulse
•Slow, shallow breathing

Aside: Someone with hypothermia usually isn't aware of his or her condition because the symptoms often begin gradually. Also, the confused thinking associated with hypothermia prevents self-awareness. The confused thinking can also lead to risk-taking behavior.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:11 am
by Arduin
Ancalagon wrote:Hmmm. Maybe I'll see if I can whip up something at some point and post them for review.
If you do, roughly triple the times if referencing a medical doc. They are highly inaccurate if dealing with healthy, active adults.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:24 am
by Ancalagon
Thanks for the post, Captain_K. I may have to playtest those ideas.

Thanks for the recommendation, Arduin. I imagine most adventuring types would be considered healthy, active adults. :)

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:35 am
by Arduin
Ancalagon wrote:Thanks for the post, Captain_K. I may have to playtest those ideas.

Thanks for the recommendation, Arduin. I imagine most adventuring types would be considered healthy, active adults. :)
Yep. Also if one ever reads Darwin and his accounts of the natives at Tierra del Fuego swimming in iceberg laden waters and sleeping on the shore naked at night in driving sleet storms you will see what extremes a conditioned human body can operate in without harm.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:27 am
by Captain_K
The modifiers noted below are to be edited as the CK sees fit, add new ones, etc. If you feel training/familiarity is key, then it could also increase times to check by one step.
I have NOT run any of these, its all musing, I suggest we roll test and comment until it works reasonably.
But we know that Eskimos wear great winter cloths, not naked, so everyone is susceptible (assuming we don't count magical creatures or spells immune to cold), its just how bad or how fast.

Any specific or specially designed clothing that protects the body from exposure/evaporation and direct wind adds +6 to CON roll.
Specific training, experience, or training with specific cold environment exposures add +3 to CON roll.
Thin characters suffer a -2 to CON roll.
Overweight characters gain a +2 to CON roll.
Naked characters suffer a -4 to their rolls.
Character with sufficient caloric reserves gain a +2 to their CON roll.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:52 am
by Captain_K
How about Frostbite?

Heat Stroke or the affects of heat/sun? Dehydration?

Anyone got something on these?

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:02 pm
by Treebore
Why would it even be an issue? No spell casters with Endure Elements?

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:47 pm
by TheMetal1
Way back when RPGNow had the first "mega-bundle"; included with it was "Frost & Fur: The Explorer's Guide to the Frozen Lands" by Michael Tresca (published under the OGL/d20 by MonkeyGod Enterprises, back in 2004). Might help with some things to consider for C&C Games:

Frost & Fur: The Explorer's Guide to the Frozen Lands, page 24-25 wrote:Hypothermia & Frostbite

If a PC is exposed to extreme cold he will begin to suffer the effects of hypothermia and frostbite. As a person’s core body temperature drops, their metabolism slows. This leads to a strangulation of the skin caused by lack of circulation and the eventual freezing of tissue. In game terms, hypothermia is nonlethal damage caused by cold usually coming
from exposure; frostbite is normal damage caused by cold. Obviously, creatures that have no metabolism (undead, ethereal creatures, elementals) or creatures with the Cold subtype, need not worry about these conditions.

Exposure

The best defense against cold or exposure is to get under cover and keep warm. Cold and exposure deal nonlethal damage to the victim. This damage cannot be recovered until the character gets out of the cold and warms up again. Once a character is rendered unconscious due to nonlethal damage, the cold and exposure begins to deal normal damage at the same rate. Characters exposed to the cold (wind chill temperatures below 40°F) must make a periodic Fortitude saving throw to avoid suffering the effects of hypothermia. Each failed saving throw results in 1d6 nonlethal damage taken. The following guidelines apply:

• Frequency: At or below 40°F, unprotected or wet characters must make a Fortitude save after each hour of exposure. When subjected to extreme cold (at or below 0°F), protected (i.e. wearing cold weather gear or equivalent) characters must make a Fortitude save after each hour of exposure, unprotected characters must make a Fortitude save every ten minutes, and wet characters must check each minute. Note: a character immersed in icy or frigid water must make a Fortitude save every round, regardless of ambient air temperature.

• Exposure DC: The DC of the Fortitude save depends primarily on the effective temperature. The effective temperature depends on the weather, the presence of heat sources (see the temperature section for the effect of fire on ambient temperature), and wind chill. The base DC is 15 +1 for each previous check and +1 for each 10 F° below the base (40°F or 0°F).

• Fortitude Save: A variety of conditions can alter the result of your Fortitude check (see table 2.9) such as shelter, clothing, armor, activity, and the characters condition. Treat these as circumstance bonuses or penalties to the Fort save. Depending on how much nonlethal damage the character has taken, he suffers from different degrees of hypothermia. Once he has taken 25% of his normal hit points as nonlethal damage the character begins to suffer mild hypothermia. At 50% the effect intensifies to moderate hypothermia. At the 75% threshold, the effect becomes severe and the PC is in grave danger. At 100%, the PC passes out and begins to suffer normal damage in place of
nonlethal damage. Also, once he begins to suffer from hypothermia, he must also make frostbite checks (see below).

Effects of Hypothermia

• Mild Hypothermia (25%): The PC suffers from muscle cramps (-2 Strength), dizzy spells, stumbling, lethargy (-2 Dexterity, moves at half normal speed) and is considered Fatigued. The PC trembles violently as his body attains its maximum shivering response (Reflex save (DC 20) to cast spells withsomatic components), an involuntary condition in which muscles contract rapidly to generate additional body heat.

• Moderate Hypothermia (50%): The PC suffers from muscle cramps (-4 Strength), dizzy spells, stumbling, lethargy (-4 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom, moves at half normal speed, can either take a single move or a standard action, but not both, must make a Reflex save (DC 30) to cast spells with somatic components). PCs at this point become disoriented and confused. The shivering stops, but kidneys work overtime—suddenly the urge to urinate becomes overpowering.

Table 2.9 Hypothermia Modifiers
Clothing DC
Shelter +10
Cold Weather Outfit +5
Heavy Armor +3
Medium Armor +2
Light Armor +1
Explorer’s Outfit +1
Other Outfits +0
Miscellaneous Fort Save
Immersed in icy water -10
Wet -5
Wilderness Lore + Skill rank
Vigorous Activity +Con Bonus
Fatigued -1
Exhausted -2
Disabled -3
Hot Blooded Feat +6

• Severe Hypothermia (75%): The PC suffers from muscle cramps (-6 Strength), dizzy spells, stumbling, lethargy (-6 Dexterity, -4 Wisdom, only 5-foot steps, can either take a single move or a standard action, but not both, must make a Reflex save (DC 40) to cast spells with somatic components) and is considered Exhausted. The lack of oxygen to the PC’s brain begins to trigger visual and auditory hallucinations. Until the PC reaches a warm place, he exhibits confused, violent, or irrational behavior (as per the confusion spell).

• Extreme Hypothermia (100%): The PC is unconscious and in the process of freezing to death. All failed Fortitude saving throws now result in regular damage. Note that hypothermia is a double-edged sword. Once a PC reaches negative hit points his life functions become suspended. He can linger on up to -20 hit points before perishing and loses hit points every minute rather than every round (although he will not stabilize). Characters recover from this damage through healing spells and from being gradually warmed up. The hypothermia penalties gradually subside as the character recovers the nonlethal damage he took from the cold and exposure. However, if rescued, the PC isn’t out of danger yet—hours after surviving hypothermia, men have died of heart attacks after sipping hot drinks. Warming the PC back up requires a successful Heal check (DC 30). Failure
means the PC is warmed up too quickly and must make a Fort save (DC 30) or die on the spot. No save is necessary for magical healing.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:36 pm
by Captain_K
I agree, zero level spell endure elements is great.. but can't always do everyone and you might need some guidelines at least as a lesson to ensure the folks take the spell "the next time".

Thought about the spell, would you say it does not work in icy winter water, it helps but it does not permit swimming in the arctic sea in winter naked? Natural yes, but pretty extreme... I like the idea the zero level spell has some natural limits..

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:23 pm
by TheMetal1
Did a search in the CKG, but found no mention of Frostbite or Hypothermia. All found was below and is, quite frankly, typical of C&C. I'm running Blacktooth Ridge during the winter season of Ahirde, but it the weather is more of a backdrop and impediment to movement. The PCs have a the capability of casting Endure Elements and have other options (Endure Elements rings and Boots of the Winterlands) so it's kind of transparent, but I do use random weather tables and it adds flavor to the adventure when a storm comes in.
CKG, Chapter 5 - Worlds of Adventure: Overland, page 97 wrote:The weather can be an enemy as deadly as any fantastic creature one can imagine. However, it probably shouldn’t be used as such. Weather is most often a backdrop to the story, and it should only rarely be made dangerous. It should, however, be an impediment and obstacle as with anything else in nature.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:09 am
by Traveller
There is nothing on the effects of frostbite or hypothermia. So sayeth the editor.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:57 pm
by Arduin
TheMetal1 wrote:
CKG, Chapter 5 - Worlds of Adventure: Overland, page 97 wrote:The weather can be an enemy as deadly as any fantastic creature one can imagine. However, it probably shouldn’t be used as such. Weather is most often a backdrop to the story, and it should only rarely be made dangerous. It should, however, be an impediment and obstacle as with anything else in nature.
This and what Tree mentioned. I don't think that I've ever had weather kill PC's. Maybe it happened if weather were ignored by PCs...

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:11 pm
by Ancalagon
Arduin wrote:
TheMetal1 wrote:
CKG, Chapter 5 - Worlds of Adventure: Overland, page 97 wrote:The weather can be an enemy as deadly as any fantastic creature one can imagine. However, it probably shouldn’t be used as such. Weather is most often a backdrop to the story, and it should only rarely be made dangerous. It should, however, be an impediment and obstacle as with anything else in nature.
This and what Tree mentioned. I don't think that I've ever had weather kill PC's. Maybe it happened if weather were ignored by PCs...
I'm working on an adventure where temperatures may become a factor depending on the PCs' actions....

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:14 pm
by Arduin
Ancalagon wrote:
Arduin wrote:
TheMetal1 wrote:
CKG, Chapter 5 - Worlds of Adventure: Overland, page 97 wrote:The weather can be an enemy as deadly as any fantastic creature one can imagine. However, it probably shouldn’t be used as such. Weather is most often a backdrop to the story, and it should only rarely be made dangerous. It should, however, be an impediment and obstacle as with anything else in nature.
This and what Tree mentioned. I don't think that I've ever had weather kill PC's. Maybe it happened if weather were ignored by PCs...
I'm working on an adventure where temperatures may become a factor depending on the PCs' actions....
It can be fun. Used in conjunction with terrain it can really make the PC's plan ahead, take different routes, prepare with pack animals and mega supplies, etc., etc.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:55 pm
by Captain_K
Secret entrance behind a magically never freezing water fall in the dead of winter... an icy ledge must be inched around to the tunnel entrance. super cooled water in a pool behind the falls... hard to hear, misting and icing everyone and everything.. then the "water weird" pops up and nails one PC... there I had drowning, hypothermia, lack of swimming ability, armor. etc. all combine.. those who lived were soaked and only in need of a place to hide, heal, dry and warm up... good excitement fast action, but just one little watery monster.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:21 am
by Arduin
Captain_K wrote:Secret entrance behind a magically never freezing water fall in the dead of winter... an icy ledge must be inched around to the tunnel entrance. super cooled water in a pool behind the falls... hard to hear, misting and icing everyone and everything.. then the "water weird" pops up and nails one PC... there I had drowning, hypothermia, lack of swimming ability, armor. etc. all combine.. those who lived were soaked and only in need of a place to hide, heal, dry and warm up... good excitement fast action, but just one little watery monster.
Nice scenario there.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:19 am
by TheMetal1
I picked up the Greyhawk Box Set in PDF a month or so ago, and just took a look at the Weather Effects tables. Thought you all might find it interesting:
World of Greyhawk II page 24-25, by Gary Gygax wrote:
A Glossography For the Guide to the World of Greyhawk complied by Pluffet Smedger, The Elder, of the Royal University at Relmord C.Y. 998

EFFECTS OF CLIMATIC EXTREMES
The Dungeon Master should be aware of some of the possible effects that can occur when a party confronts extreme temperatures. The suggestions in this section are only that, and make no attempt to present the full range of possibilities.

In cold climates, always use the Wind Chill Table to determine true temperatures.

The bulky clothing needed for protection in cold climes can affect a character's dexterity, armor class, and "to hit" rolls. A deduction of one point from each of these characteristics for every ten degrees below 0 degrees F. is suggested.

The use of heat-producing magic, from spells or items, can have severe repercussions on the local environment. Snow will melt and re-freeze into glare ice, for example, after a Fireball, and ice floes will crack and separate after intense heat. In mountainous terrain, intense heat may cause a snow avalanche or a rock avalanche.

Extremes of cold may affect the usage of personal possessions. Oil, for instance, may not flow. Liquids may freeze, cracking their containers in the process. A potion may lose its effect, or be changed, after being subjected to extreme cold.

If a party travels with animals, pets, familiars, etc., or summons monsters, be sure to take the effects of the cold into account when describing the actions of these creatures. Creatures from the Elemental Plane of Fire will be extremely annoyed at those who call on them in cold climes (double the chance of rebelling if summoned.) Extra food will often be needed under these conditions.

Drinking hot beverages at temperatures below -20 degrees F. offers the possibility that the drinker's teeth may crack from the sudden temperature change.

Frostbite will destroy an exposed body part in 10-30 minutes at temperatures of-40 degrees F. and below. Body parts lost to frostbite damage can only be restored by regeneration, such as from the clerical spell Regenerate, a ring of regeneration, or similar means. Frostbite is most likely to develop in situations where:

a) tight clothing is worn
b) the extremities (hands, feet, ears,etc.) are inactive or immobile
c) the character suffers from chronic vascular disease
d) the air is both cold and moist.

Dungeon Masters should decide whether spells with somatic components can be cast while the caster is wearing gloves, heavy clothing, etc. One possibility is to assign a chance of spell failure based upon temperature, such as 5% for every 10 degrees below -20 degrees F.

On a sunny day, there is a cumulative 2% chance per hour that a character will become snowblind for d4 turns. The effects of this are equivalent to a Light spell cast on the character's visage. Monsters that dwell in snowy climes are immune to this effect.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:28 am
by TheMetal1
What I do find interesting is that the two tables (Special Weather Phenomena Table and Temperature & Humidity Effects Table) in this section leave out any mention of winter weather save a snow avalanche in the Special Weather Phenomena Table. Half the section does deal with Cold Weather, and the other half Hot Weather, just no tables on Blizzards, etc.

Anyway, hope this helps expand some stuff for you all. I'll take a look at my Frostburn book (from WOTC - D&D 3.X) and see if I find anything. Anyone have the old AD&D Wilderness Adventures Book to draw from for us on this Cold Weather/Frostbite/Hypothermia????

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:39 am
by Tadhg
I didn't see anything in Frostburn.

There was another book that was supposed to be better . . was it, Frost & Fur? Don't have it but mebbe someone else here does have it and can comment.

:)

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:40 am
by Tadhg
Oh, and the AD&D Wilderness book has nothing!

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:30 am
by Captain_K
The Dragon, 1982, "Weather in the World of Greyhawk" by David Axler I think is where the above appeared... no effects per say other than some frost bite hints and other things that must be taken into account.

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:26 am
by Traveller
@Captain K: The weather rules in Dragon 68 were incorporated in their entirety into the World of Greyhawk box set, which was both a revision and expansion of the folio. Oh, and it's per se, not per say.

*pauses*

Sorry...editing the CKG turned me into a grammar nazi. ;)

Re: Hypothermia in the CKG?

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:03 pm
by serleran
It could be per say, per se, if quoting each individual.

*purr*