Troll Lord Games

Last night I was running a game for my 3 kids and 3 of their friends, and I had them encounter a group of 14 Ghouls in a large underground storage room. The Fighter won initiative, and ran up into the massing of Ghouls and laid waste. Since the Ghouls were starving they immediately surrounded the fighter, which is what the Fighter wanted. The Fighter then used my Mass Combat Dominance ability and successfully hit the 8 Ghouls adjacent to him. Since his Bearded Axe was +2, and its what he is Specialized in, and the Fighter has an 18 Strength, he easily destroyed a Ghoul with each hit, taking out 8 of the 14 in the very first round. The party Wizard opted to just do a Magic Missile instead of use his Fireball, so he took out one of the Ghouls with his three MM's. Another player hit another Ghoul for 6, and the rest missed. The Ghouls slashed and bit at the Fighter, but his Polish Hussar Armor protected him from all of it. The Fighter then laid down another smack down on the remaining Ghouls and struck them all down.

It was nice seeing the Fighter do such devastation instead of the Wizards Fireball.

Treebore,

What level was the fighter? I would think that eight human size monsters would be about it as far as striking in one round.

JLL

Forgive me if I'm off base on this (I'll defend myself by saying I've been out in the heat all morning doing a lot of little jobs on my 1 day off this week, so my brain isn't working at 100%)

But, I thought CD only worked against 1 HD baddies ? I don't have my books neat to hand to check it .....

That said, even if it is 1 HD by the book, I always thought it should scale up as the fighter gains levels. So, I like your example of its effectiveness anyway.

Lucker,

treebore house a house rule. Mass Combat Dominance under his house rules is like the whirlwind feat of 3E.

JLL

lobocastle wrote:Lucker,

treebore house a house rule. Mass Combat Dominance under his house rules is like the whirlwind feat of 3E.

JLL

Rgr, I should have known that, ... I play in one of his games ... But, like I said, my brain isn't firing at 100% right now

I house ruled it to: Combat Dominance also works when opponents are at least 4 HD less than the level of the PC.

Yeah, C&C has Combat Dominance, I have Mass Combat Dominance. This was a 5th level party. To sum up, to trigger it, a Fighter must engage a minimum of 3 opponents, and when they do so they get one attack per opponent within reach, so if surrounded, as in the above situation, they can attack 8 opponents in one round. This "attack" replaces all other attack options. So, for an example, the Haste spell will not alter the conditions of this attack.

As I have stated before, I don't put any limitations, aside from what is already mentioned, because I look at it as making the Fighter into a mini Fireball on the battle field. A Fireball that effectively has a 5 foot radius of effect. Of course the Wizard remains much more powerful in this regard, but it gives the Fighter its own special thing that puts it more in line with being the best fighting machine on the battlefield. Works fantastically in my opinion.

I don't mind the idea, but 8 actions in one round smacks of too much, I think if it was tempered to say 4 attacks in one round it would be "possible" as in a high level fighter on Haste... I know a round is 6 seconds and I suspect one can argue a skilled guy can get off 8 attacks over 360 degrees.. but you'd be pushing it.. further it implies the defenders (dead ghouls standing in this case) in no way slow the guy down.

Now point in question, must each attack drop the opponent to move onto the next attack or is it flat out 8 attacks even if none die?

First: Glad it works for you Tree. Definitely puts a bit of the ol' quissinart back into the fighter.

Thought: Since it was long established that no more than six man-size opponents can surround/engage a single target, Would not six be the maximum number to be engaged, especially if already having had to move into melee range?

Go0gleplex wrote: Thought: Since it was long established that no more than six man-size opponents can surround/engage a single target, Would not six be the maximum number to be engaged, especially if already having had to move into melee range?

The limit is six if they want to effectively use melee weapons...

hungry ghouls with short sharp claws and teeth could likely get 10 or more ganged in, but then swinging an axe would also not be possible... isn't that the old "overbear"... Gods I hate those actions, always such a pain.

Yeah, ask all my players on these boards, I tend to go with what makes sense, not what the rules say it should be for every single situation. I've never been a fan of cookie cutters, I only use them when they are useful. Plus its only overbear if they are trying to pull, push, or otherwise knock him down. They were trying to tear off his flesh and eat it. A group of Orcs would Overbear, and horde of ravenously hungry undead would rip and tear.

As for it being "too much", so is a Fireball with a 20 foot radius of effect, which would have likely hit all of the Ghouls and destroyed them. No one complains about that. So I am happy letting the fighter do this, while exposing themselves to a crap ton of counter attacks, or being overbear-ed, grappled, etc.... since its no where as safe as it is for the Wizard so many feet away, I think it works.

Congrats, it obviously works, it works for you and it works for that fighter I'm sure. I bet songs will be sung in his name. I agree he is no more than the fire ball, but he is able to do it nearly endlessly with no ill effects to those around, so it is indeed AWESOME. Congrats, how long were you waiting for it to happen?

Two more questions, each to hit had to be rolled? Each one needed to die with each hit?

Idea for fighters: If you are twice their HD you get one extra attack, thrice, two extra attacks, etc. One rule which gets better with levels in a relativistic manner.

Captain_K wrote:Congrats, it obviously works, it works for you and it works for that fighter I'm sure. I bet songs will be sung in his name. I agree he is no more than the fire ball, but he is able to do it nearly endlessly with no ill effects to those around, so it is indeed AWESOME. Congrats, how long were you waiting for it to happen?

Two more questions, each to hit had to be rolled? Each one needed to die with each hit?

Idea for fighters: If you are twice their HD you get one extra attack, thrice, two extra attacks, etc. One rule which gets better with levels in a relativistic manner.

Yeah, they have to roll to attack each one. Dying wasn't required.

So what if it could possibly be done endlessly? Its not like we ever run a combat that lasts endlessly. Plus if it were to be a possible issue, you can always make fighting like this fatiguing.

Captain_K wrote:I know a round is 6 seconds

First sentence on page 171 of the PHB 6th printing wrote:One combat round is 10 seconds long.

Damn, I can't tell you how often I've screwed that up over the decades. A turn is one minute, aka 60 sec. You either have ten rounds each 6 sec long or six rounds 10 sec long in each turn. Has that changed over the history of DnD or have I simple screwed up a constant for years? Initiative is rolled with a d10 but is not strictly to represent 10 seconds, especially if you allow modifiers for DEX or Magic Items in this roll. Thanks for catching my history screw up, et again.

I think the point remains valid that 8 attacks in 10 seconds is still pretty fast, but it does help.. Thanks.

Captain_K wrote: I think the point remains valid that 8 attacks in 10 seconds is still pretty fast, but it does help.. Thanks.

Thats kind of the point, when your surrounded by a wall of targets, if it should become easier for anyone to hit all of them, rapidly, its the Fighter class. Plus the Fighter should know how to turn their numbers against them, making them interfere with each others attacks, trip over each other, etc... since combat is abstract in C&C, just like it is in all of D&D, Mass Combat Dominance represents that kind of fighting. If I was running a system that covers combat moment by moment, such as the new Hackmaster system, I'd do it differently.

Captain_K wrote:Damn, I can't tell you how often I've screwed that up over the decades.

Decades? In AD&D a Turn was 10 minutes and a melee round was 1 minute wasn't it?.

Arduin wrote:

Captain_K wrote:Damn, I can't tell you how often I've screwed that up over the decades.

Decades? In AD&D a Turn was 10 minutes and a melee round was 1 minute wasn't it?.

Is. It still is.

My mass combat dominance is awesome. Tactical nuclear warhead.

serleran wrote:My mass combat dominance is awesome. Tactical nuclear warhead.

E = MC2