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No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:14 am
by SmokestackJones
Page 61, Castles and Crusades Players Handbook 6th printing (C&C Flipbook):
In this game, we do not work under the assumption that characters carry a standard pack of equipment. Nothing is given! If an item is not listed on the character's sheet then the character does not have that particular item.
Now I'm making my own assumption here that what is said is that the KC is not giving out adventurer's packs gratis (which I agree with) but there SHOULD be said packs available for purchase. Those are the kind of things that speed up character creation and make the KC's job a LOT easier (I have players who are still equipping their character an hour into the game).

Yeah I can houserule it, but I'm just sorry the Trolls couldn't include some priced-out packs to choose from.

-SJ

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:17 am
by Treebore
I have them in my House Rules. A board member, don't know if they still even come here, created them years ago, and I snagged them. I'll paste them here shortly.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:19 am
by Treebore
Equipment bundles

Pack 1, Delvers bundle

Backpack 2g
Bedroll 1s
Belt pouch large 1g
Blanket, winter 5s
Canteen ½ gallon 2g
Flint and steel 1g
Hammer small 1g
Lantern hooded 7g
Oil 6 flasks 6g
Pitons / spikes 10 1g
Rope 50’ hemp 1g
Sack large 2 1s
Torch 5 5c
Whetstone/weapon kit 1g

Total 25 gold


Pack 2, mage kit

Case, scroll or map 2 2g
Chalk dozen pieces 12c
Flask 6 18c
Ink 3oz 24g
Paper 10 sheets 10g
Quill 3 3s
Wax, sealing 3 3g
Tongs 6s
Vial 6 (1oz) 6s

Total 40 gold


Pack 3, cleric kit

Candle 5 sticks 5c
Holy symbol wood 1g
Incense sticks 6 6g
Prayer beads 2g
Wolves bane 2g

Total 10 gold



Pack 4, rogue gear

Belt pouch small 2 1g
Case scroll or map 1g
Chalk 3 pieces 3c
Chisel 1g
Cord 50’ 5g
Crowbar 2g
Dust bag of 3 -
File metal 1g
Pitons/spikes 10 1g
Rogues tools 30g
Sack small 1s
String 50’ 4s
Vial 4 4s

Total 40 gold

Pack 5, provisions cheap

Water skin 1g
Rations 2 weeks 6g

Total 7 gold


Pack 6, provisions good

Water skin 1g
Cheese block 2 4s
Rations 2 weeks 6g
Beer ration, daily 7g
Tea 1month supply 1s
Wine, fine 2 bottles 20g
Pipe, and 2 weeks pipe weed 6g

Total 40 gp

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:42 am
by SmokestackJones
Danke shoen, sir.

-SJ

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:58 am
by Treebore
Ihr Neukunden.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:49 am
by thenorthman
The Black Box has some pre made packs. Plus believe they are working on a book with them....

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:11 am
by Treebore
thenorthman wrote: Plus believe they are working on a book with them....
On packs? I doubt thats all there would be to it. Hmmmmm... Now you have me hoping they will do a gear book, preferably a close mimic of the one Kenzer did for their Kalamar setting. Just for Aihrde instead.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:06 pm
by Arduin
SmokestackJones wrote: (I have players who are still equipping their character an hour into the game).
I allow an hour for 1st level creation (if doing at the table). After that, show time. Force players to engage that sluggish brain. They WILL need it once I start the game. :o

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:24 pm
by Captain_K
I like the "You pick it, buy it, write it and have it, if not, you will do without.". great fun and learning when no one has an ink pot or bandage when they need it. But so many players just do not like writing that stuff, tracking it, or figuring out how big all their stuff is or how much it weighs/costs.. so some winging it at times is nice... the old bag of holding or belt pouch of endless spell components can help/hinder or this fine little item: Bertram's Ball of Wacky Wax: This magical bee's wax (baseball sized) can be molded by an Arcane Spell caster into any single spell component of any value with the expenditure of a particular cantrip. Any component can only be created once and the wax only functions once each day. The component must be no larger than the ball of wax. Each molding dirties the wax and when it is black with filth, its magic is spent. Usually useful 5d6 times before too dirty to function.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:30 pm
by ssfsx17
Once characters reach level 2 by-the-book (getting XP for treasure), they should simply not have to worry about the little stuff anymore.

Unless you want to go into the logistics of deciding what stuff gets put on mules, having hirelings to guard the mules and other gear, having enough rations and feed for the mules and hirelings, etc. But if you want to enter that level of detail, then perhaps BattleTech or Shadowrun are better suited for your playstyle :)

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:49 pm
by Arduin
ssfsx17 wrote:Once characters reach level 2 by-the-book (getting XP for treasure), they should simply not have to worry about the little stuff anymore.

Why not? If the players don't bring containers how are they going to carry water? Etc... Pack animals still have carrying limits and are prone to being "lost" during encounters.

If people cannot write down simple items they are probably more suited to playing computer games rather than D&D type RPGs...

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:56 pm
by serleran
Personally, I don't like the idea.

Unless there are general stores owned by ex-adventurers and they happen to collect things that the life requires. Or maybe its like the boomtown days and proprietors sell stuff they know you're not going to need but sounds good anyway....

It might make character creation more streamlined. But, you could also just go the other direction and make assumptions about what the PCs have, too. DM-fiat packs, for example -- yes, Billy the Half-Elf Fisherman Fighter has a fishing pole, a hook or two, and some bait... it's what he did before he went into that cave looking for gold.

My personal preference is more along the DCC method... or Warhammer Fantasy Role Play 1st edition. Random for one or based entirely on pre-adventuring occupation.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:03 pm
by Go0gleplex
Our games decades ago used to have us as members of an adventurer's guild or signing on as such. The ready packs were available to the 'greenhorns' through the guild with cheaper packs made up of hand me down equipment for those more 'financially challenged' sorts.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:14 pm
by Buttmonkey
I don't screw around with starting equipment by the book. I let my players choose between one of the three standard packs CK Dad came up with (standard, smart, and sneaky), tell them to pick a melee weapon of choice, a missile weapon of choice, and I tell them what kind of armor they have. I then tell them they have an arbitrary amount of gold left over based on my mood. The whole process takes about a minute. I've never had a complaint and the game runs much better for it.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:18 pm
by Captain_K
One way we've recently done it was "dress for dinner" at an nice Inn at the festival your master/teacher is meeting his old adventuring party at... you're to dress well, behave and only bring polite dinner and conversation stuff. Then at dinner something happens.. they are forced into a mini adventure with nothing better than a leather cloak and steak knives... after the successful mini they are rewarded with some cash and a discount spending spree at the local armorer and weapon smith for their acts of bravery. This allowed the new pcs to first focus on character then a second night on mundane equipment. Another fun one is meeting in a dungeon, as inmates, or chained in a ship galley as rowers. They have nothing at all and the whole first few adventures are all about staying alive and equipping oneself.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:48 am
by alcyone
If there are old AD&D modules with pre-gens of the level of the party, those are good for starting equipment, especially at > 1st level, and might include some reasonable magical weapons.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:11 pm
by Omote
Don't be lazy. Write it down. Take inventory. As CK, I do - and you should too.

~O

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:24 pm
by Arduin
Omote wrote:Don't be lazy. Write it down. Take inventory. As CK, I do - and you should too.

~O
The main reason to NOT create packs to stick into the PHB (IMO) is that each CK is likely to have their own idea as to what is available in their game world. For instance, in my current game (in the area the PCs are in) there is no silk rope, paper and many other items available to purchase. Prices may be different, etc. NOT to mention what armor & weapons are available.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:00 pm
by Omote
Yup, I totally agree Arduin. I think little changes as you mention help make the world feel different from other campaigns, even if it's just mundane effects like regional pricing and equipment availability. But nonetheless, I want players to take care of and embrace writing equipment and notes about that equipment on their character sheet. Is there anything more frustrating than a PC who doesn't take the time to note down the effects of a magical item and then they ask what the items does and slows down the pace of the game? Gah!

~O

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:07 pm
by Dracyian
Omote wrote:Yup, I totally agree Arduin. I think little changes as you mention help make the world feel different from other campaigns, even if it's just mundane effects like regional pricing and equipment availability. But nonetheless, I want players to take care of and embrace writing equipment and notes about that equipment on their character sheet. Is there anything more frustrating than a PC who doesn't take the time to note down the effects of a magical item and then they ask what the items does and slows down the pace of the game? Gah!

~O
This is why I have a journal just for my characters so I can keep track of what he has and doesn't have anymore and it easily makes the whole campaign easier. I'll keep pages solely for big things such as a casino, or ship, or castle with notes on how much it costs a month, how far in advance it is paid through who lives there, what they do, the condition it is in and any magical effects on it

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:24 pm
by Arduin
True Omote. Immersion, familiarity and interest in the character (as opposed to only combat related info) should be fostered at that level.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:18 pm
by Treebore
For example, in todays digital world, you can take the above "packs" and its likely far more easier to edit them to reflect what is or is not in a given setting, than to write it up completely from scratch.

Also, it is far more likely that the vast majority are like me, and use the established world settings in print from various sources, so for 70%+ of the games out there, such premade lists will work perfectly, and if not, should be easy to edit/modify to fit the particular aspects of the home grown campaign worlds.

Heck, the above list will even work for the Oathbound setting, and that setting is radically different from most. They will also work for Eberron.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:23 pm
by Omote
Dracyian wrote: This is why I have a journal just for my characters so I can keep track of what he has and doesn't have anymore and it easily makes the whole campaign easier. I'll keep pages solely for big things such as a casino, or ship, or castle with notes on how much it costs a month, how far in advance it is paid through who lives there, what they do, the condition it is in and any magical effects on it
You are my hero. I wish you were one of my players!

~O

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:13 pm
by Dead Horse
Those were my quick play equipment bundles, glad to see someone using them.

I updated them a little.

Pack 1, Delvers bundle, provisions Cheap

Backpack 2g
Bedroll 1s
Belt pouch large 1g
Blanket, winter 5s
Canteen ½ gallon 2g
Flint and steel 1g
Hammer small 1g
Lantern hooded 7g
Oil 6 flasks 6g
Pitons / spikes 10 1g
Rope 50’ hemp 1g
Sack large 2 1s
Torch 5 5c
Whetstone/weapon kit 1g
Water skin 1g
Dried Rations 2 weeks 6g

Total 32 gold

Pack 2, Delvers bundle, provisions good

Backpack 2g
Bedroll 1s
Belt pouch large 1g
Blanket, winter 5s
Canteen ½ gallon 2g
Flint and steel 1g
Hammer small 1g
Lantern hooded 7g
Oil 6 flasks 6g
Pitons / spikes 10 1g
Rope 50’ hemp 1g
Sack large 2 1s
Torch 5 5c
Whetstone/weapon kit 1g
Water skin 1g
Cheese block 2 4s
Rations 2 weeks 6g
Beer ration, daily 7g
Tea 1month supply 1s
Wine, fine 2 bottles 20g
Pipe, and 2 weeks pipe weed 6g

Total 65 gold











Pack 3, Cleric/religous kit

Candle 5 sticks 5c
Holy symbol wood 1g
Incense sticks 6 6g
Prayer beads 2g
Wolves bane 2g

Total 10 gold
Pack 4, Mage/scholar kit

Case, scroll or map 2 2g
Chalk dozen pieces 12c
Flask 6 18c
Ink 3oz 24g
Paper 10 sheets 10g
Quill 3 3s
Wax, sealing 3 3g
Tongs 6s
Vial 6 (1oz) 6s

Total 4o gold

Pack 5, Rogue gear

Belt pouch small 2 1g
Case scroll or map 1g
Chalk 3 pieces 3c
Chisel 1g
Cord 50’ 5g
Crowbar 2g
Dust, bag of 3 -
File metal 1g
Pitons/spikes 10 1g
Rogues tools 30g
Sack small 1s
String 50’ 4s
Vial 4 4s

Total 40 gold

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:29 pm
by Treebore
Dead Horse wrote:Those were my quick play equipment bundles, glad to see someone using them.

I updated them a little.

Pack 1, Delvers bundle, provisions Cheap

Backpack 2g
Bedroll 1s
Belt pouch large 1g
Blanket, winter 5s
Canteen ½ gallon 2g
Flint and steel 1g
Hammer small 1g
Lantern hooded 7g
Oil 6 flasks 6g
Pitons / spikes 10 1g
Rope 50’ hemp 1g
Sack large 2 1s
Torch 5 5c
Whetstone/weapon kit 1g
Water skin 1g
Dried Rations 2 weeks 6g

Total 32 gold

Pack 2, Delvers bundle, provisions good

Backpack 2g
Bedroll 1s
Belt pouch large 1g
Blanket, winter 5s
Canteen ½ gallon 2g
Flint and steel 1g
Hammer small 1g
Lantern hooded 7g
Oil 6 flasks 6g
Pitons / spikes 10 1g
Rope 50’ hemp 1g
Sack large 2 1s
Torch 5 5c
Whetstone/weapon kit 1g
Water skin 1g
Cheese block 2 4s
Rations 2 weeks 6g
Beer ration, daily 7g
Tea 1month supply 1s
Wine, fine 2 bottles 20g
Pipe, and 2 weeks pipe weed 6g

Total 65 gold











Pack 3, Cleric/religous kit

Candle 5 sticks 5c
Holy symbol wood 1g
Incense sticks 6 6g
Prayer beads 2g
Wolves bane 2g

Total 10 gold
Pack 4, Mage/scholar kit

Case, scroll or map 2 2g
Chalk dozen pieces 12c
Flask 6 18c
Ink 3oz 24g
Paper 10 sheets 10g
Quill 3 3s
Wax, sealing 3 3g
Tongs 6s
Vial 6 (1oz) 6s

Total 4o gold

Pack 5, Rogue gear

Belt pouch small 2 1g
Case scroll or map 1g
Chalk 3 pieces 3c
Chisel 1g
Cord 50’ 5g
Crowbar 2g
Dust, bag of 3 -
File metal 1g
Pitons/spikes 10 1g
Rogues tools 30g
Sack small 1s
String 50’ 4s
Vial 4 4s

Total 40 gold
Ah, there you are. Yeah, I've been using them for years.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:08 pm
by Dead Horse
With the equip bundles i can roll a char and be playing in under 15 mins.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:08 pm
by Captain_K
I never used to leave home without a pouch of ground mustard, iron filings, and flour.. very versatile mix. I also liked to carry all the silly little things.. great fun when the whistle or bar of soap... bag of marbles or crock of grease could save the day,,, and one always did for the imaginative player!

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:58 am
by Kayolan
Just used these packs before the game tonight, worked really well. Character creation was much faster and we got the game going on the fly.

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:26 pm
by Captain_K
I'm going to tweak the nice packs as I would store things AND add weights & EVs to make the pack "ready to go"... my work will make some assumption and need checking.. one first issue, anyone know why the weight of a water skin and canteen is off by a factor of two? 1 gallon of water is a bit over 8#. So they got the 1 pt flask weight right at 1#

Re: No Equipment Packs? Wha?

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:45 pm
by Captain_K
Pack 1, Delvers Backpack, Provisions Cheap
Shoulder Pack 2g/2#/3(w)/10 cap.
1) Lantern hooded 7g/2#/2
2) Oil 6 flasks 6g/6#/6
3) Rope 50’ hemp 1g/15#/3
4) Sack large (empty) 2 1g/2#/2/10 cap ea
5) Torch 5 5c/5#/5
6) Water skin (full) 1g/8#/3/1 gal
7) Dried Rations 2 weeks 6g/14#/8
8) Bedroll 1s/5#/3
9) Blanket, winter 5s/3#/2
10) Pitons / spikes 10 1g/4#/2
Canteen ½ gallon 2g/4#/1/0.5 gal
Hammer, small 1g/1#/1
Belt pouch large 1g/1#/1(w)/2 cap
1) Tin Cup (mug) 2c/0.5#/*
2) Whetstone/weapon kit 1g/0.5#/1
Free: Flint and steel 1g/0.5#/*
Totals: 32 gold/73.5#/6
Key for Items & Totals:
COST/WGT./EV/CAP
*10/1 EV

I think I followed all the rules correctly, please double check me. Once I get approval, I'll work on the others. I upped the weight for water and assumed the small hammer was intended to be less than the hammer under equipment. I added tin cup and assumed the flint and steel was trivial in the belt pouch. I changed to shoulder pack for needed capacity; I assume this is not as the name implies a one shoulder thing/mail pouch/hand bag but a big double shoulder hauling pack.