Troll Lord Games

I have found that when playing a wizard (which is a rare event for me) I like to give advice loudly to my party during combat and comment on the battles progress. "Hit em over the head, thats it bash 'is head in." Not so sure if they find this as helpful though.

gabriellyon wrote:I have found that when playing a wizard (which is a rare event for me) I like to give advice loudly to my party during combat and comment on the battles progress. "Hit em over the head, thats it bash 'is head in." Not so sure if they find this as helpful though.

That sort of sounds like me, but I'm either in the fight mocking the Half-Orc Barbarian, or my other character yelling at the 'hunter' to shoot the guy I and the party knight can't get to .... That is why it is 'role playing' ...

But, yeah, you have a great point. If you have a good sarcastic outlook, A MU is perfect to be able to make fun of each missed swing or fumble, and then step in with a 'guys, I got this' followed by a flashy spell that saves the day

Lurker wrote:

gabriellyon wrote:I have found that when playing a wizard (which is a rare event for me) I like to give advice loudly to my party during combat and comment on the battles progress. "Hit em over the head, thats it bash 'is head in." Not so sure if they find this as helpful though.

That sort of sounds like me, but I'm either in the fight mocking the Half-Orc Barbarian, or my other character yelling at the 'hunter' to shoot the guy I and the party knight can't get to .... That is why it is 'role playing' ...

But, yeah, you have a great point. If you have a good sarcastic outlook, A MU is perfect to be able to make fun of each missed swing or fumble, and then step in with a 'guys, I got this' followed by a flashy spell that saves the day

So like how Aramis does it...

I love the idea that magic casters can create raw magic like an archer can shoot arrows ( assuming he has a BIG quiver) or a sword swinging fighter can kill things all day.... adding magic items to allow this is one way. but I like rare magic items and powerful folks to make them.. so not everyone has one... so I like the basic power idea.. really working it and looking forward to it...

Captain_K wrote:I love the idea that magic casters can create raw magic like an archer can shoot arrows ( assuming he has a BIG quiver) or a sword swinging fighter can kill things all day.... adding magic items to allow this is one way. but I like rare magic items and powerful folks to make them.. so not everyone has one... so I like the basic power idea.. really working it and looking forward to it...

Don't feel obligated to copy what others have done. If you want to to emulate Bows, then have it do so. Have it do 1d8 of damage, determine to hit probabilities however you wish, as a touch attack, versus armor, whatever. Want the damage to scale? Give them a +1 bonus per level or every 2 levels. Make it be exactly what you want it to be. You can even have the caster manifest a ghostly bow whenever they use the power. Or as a sling, crossbow, whatever you think is coolest to envision/imagine.

The weapons noted above were simply what those classes.. do I want the wizard to do wizard stuff which is why I love your focus idea, wand, staff or rod... the cleric her holy symbol, the illusionist.. well likely rod, staff or wand, the druid... holy symbol again I guess. I am thinking of this "like a ranged weapon" in that this range weapon must be comparable to other ranged weapons or spells of range, they must be in the right damage range, with a base like those weapons and a way to grow to reasonable power just like fighters attack damage. I don't want it to be too powerful that the class uses it instead of their normal spells...

That said, I like the common to all spell caster motif, but should the cleric and druid do as much offensive damage as the mage/illusionist?

I think I have a good framework hammered out, I'm going to try it in our next game. My last two sticking points are: 1) Base damage for each class (same or different and growth rate meaning d4/lvl or d4+X/lvl) and 2) A special conversion for each class ex.: Cleric switch to zero range to double damage against undead (touch attack with holy symbol) OR convert to touch healing. Similarly the druid can switch to touch with holy symbol double damage but as subdual damage against any "natural" creature (I'm thinking Animal, Beast, Fey and Plant only) or convert to touch healing. Wizard?? 4x range for half damage... still drawing a blank on how to make the illusionist unique and fun.. anyway, all this is still noodling and looking for any input from anyone...

Still needs some work, but here is what I have so far.. really need cooler stuff for the wizard and illusionist..

OHR#6 Innate Magic
All classes who work magic, be it arcane or divine, can work innate simple magic even when all daily allotted spells are used. The form of this simple magic is typically a surge, or burst, of raw arcane or divine power as noted in the level zero spell format innate magic below (which can be used even when all zero level spells for the day have been used). Even if the spell caster still has zero level spells remaining for the day, the use of this spell-like ability will not use any of their daily allotment. This burst of raw power must be focused and aimed at a single opponent as a ranged touch attack (spell caster’s DEX bonus applies) where the caster’s spell casting level, not BtH, is used to hit the opponent. The opponent receives no save when the hit is successful. Although this spell-like ability, innate magic, can be performed while daily allotted spells remain, or are totally drained, it still drains and tires the caster and has a limited number of uses per day; 20 +1/spell caster level + INT/WIS bonus. Thus a 12th level druid with an 18 WIS can use their innate magic burst 35 times per day (20 + 12 +3). In all cases, the caster must use a material focus, or divine focus, such as a rod, staff, wand, or holy symbol, of ever increasing significant value, craftsmanship, &/or innate magical value (equivalent to a 20 gp value/spell caster level) to use this ability at all and to its maximum potential. Players are encouraged to make their focus unique and detailed part of their character.

INNATE MAGIC; SPELL-LIKE ABILITY, Level 0 cleric, 0 druid, 0 illusionist, 0 wizard
CT 2 R 50 ft. D n/a
SV none SR yes Comp V, S, M/DF
A surge of magical energy flies from the caster’s hand and attempts to strike its target using a ranged touch attack with the caster’s DEX bonus and spell caster level (not BtH) added to the dice roll to hit. Normal range modifiers of -2 to hit for medium range (51-100 ft) and -6 to hit for long range (101-150 ft) apply. The surge, or burst, of magical energy deals damage of 1d3/level +INT/WIS bonus, if applicable, with every successful hit. The caster must designate the target before rolling for damage or SR.
Each class of caster has the ability to convert this simple burst spell into a specific alternate form per the below:
Cleric: Clerics can convert this ranged touch attach spell to a touch attack, using their holy symbol directly, against undead for increased damage d6/level +WIS bonus. Note: A half move is permitted after the two round casting time to attempt to hit the target. A cleric can always convert this energy to a healing touch as per the spell first aid.
Druids: Druids can convert this ranged touch attach spell to a touch attack, using their holy symbol directly, to inflict subdual damage of d6/level +WIS bonus against any "natural" creature; Animal, Beast, Fey or Plant (only). Note: A half move is permitted after the two round casting time to attempt to hit the target. A druid can always convert this energy to a healing touch as per the spell first aid.
Illusionist: Illusionists can greatly increase the range of this ranged touch attack spell by four times (4x), but the total damage will be halved. Additionally, an illusionist can convert this ranged touch attach spell to an automatic hit, but the total damage will be halved and the target is permitted an INT save for half damage.
Wizard: Wizards can convert this ranged touch attach spell to an automatic hit, but the total damage will be halved. Additionally, a wizard can greatly increase the range of this ranged touch attack spell by four times (4x), but the total damage will be halved and the target is permitted a DEX save for half damage.

I've not had this as a major problem in most games I have played .... and most of the time, darts or slings have been quite adequate for when the wizard runs out of spells.
On the other hand, I have seen games where the wizard blows through his/her spells very rapidly, which contributes to the "15 minute adventuring day" issue that has cropped up in some games.

The trick is to make something that is both useful, and not easily abused, especially at higher levels. I warn of that, because I have seen a Dungeons and Dragons game where the GM gave all wizards, 2 free castings of Magic Missile, at their level, per level, per day -- so at first level, they got 2 castings of Magic Missile, plus whatever they memorized... while at 10th level, they got 20 free Magic Missile spells, cast at 10th level, every day, plus their full memorized spell list.
At the same time, I do agree with the need for something for them to do, to either cover when they are out of spells, or better, to allow them something to do in place of spells, so that they can ration out their magic until it is needed.
To that end, I have always endorsed darts and slings, and would also allow a hand crossbow, or light crossbow. I also work with my pacing, and working around the whole combat paradigm to also allow the wizard to contribute. Ancient writing on walls, old symbols, or bits of lore. All of these call out to the wizard in the party, to provide that academic support.

Then there is the whole casting part, as well. I assume that during the casting of a spell, that the wizard is totally focused on the workings of the magic, and only barely aware of their surroundings. This would be the case any time they cast a spell, so having a way to support the party, while remaining aware and providing overwatch support is very helpful. Again, that brings us back to the missile weapon support, as they are able to support the party, react to situations, and then make the choice as to when to apply magic, or just be available to help. That means recovering dropped weapons, or even assisting with a healing potion by getting it out, and having it ready to pass to those that need it.

The one thing you want is to keep the party from both becoming too dependent on the magic and always resorting to it in any situation, and also from being so common that it overruns everything in the game. Your mileage may vary, but I have seen games where everyone either was so loaded with magic items, or else had taken a class in some form of caster, that the party responded to everything with magical assault. After a while, there was no need for any other class but caster ... and the game suffered. It started with the GM allowing more and more "At-Will" combat spells to try and stop the "15 minute adventuring day, at which point his players started using their spell slots for other spells --- soon, they didn't need their thief, because both the Cleric, and the Fighter/Cleric got Find Traps. And eventually, it was a whole party of casters, doing 30 minute adventuring days......

Just remember, whenever you give something to one class, you have to consider the other players, and their classes, or you start to have issues.

Nahuris

Here are the weapons I'm thinking of letting them have: Wizards and Illusionists may also use: Knife, dirk, club, sling, thrown stones, and bolas. Hand crossbow w/CK special permission/training.
This should not make them overly offensive threats based on hp, bonus to hit unlikely and low BtH.. so throw some stones or sling them and they have something to do.

I'm super stingy on MIs, so they will not over power me there... but I am going to try the above "magic" for the casters and see what it does.. but the warnings are great, thanks.