Troll Lord Games

The party druid is suffering in the high game and is struggling to become useful in the underground combats against 'need magic to hit' creatures like demons and golems.

Would a Druid's earth elemental (from the 6th level "Summon Elemental" spell, 12 HD) be able to hit and damage an Iron Golem, which requires a +3 'weapon' to hit?

What about an elemental versus a demon which requires only +1 weapon to hit it?

I am tempted to use a modified version of the "Iron Fist" monk ability for some of these tougher creature versus creature fights, if I can't find anything official. I thought I had read rules for handling these types of things, however I can't remember where...

Small Earth Elemental = +1 ; Medium +2; Large +3. Or something like that I believe it was. Essentially high HD creatures, particularly certain magical ones, have their attacks affect creatures hit only by magical weapons. Though that was the D&D rule. Not 100% certain how C&C handles it since it has been a while last I read through the books completely.

2nd Ed DMG: 4+1 HD or more will hit +1 requirement
6+2 to hit +2 requirement
8+3 to hit +3 requirement
10+4 to hit +4 requirement

and I would assume
13+ to hit +5 requirement

I think the 1st Ed ADD DMG had something similar too.

By the book, no to both. Elementals are summoned by magic, but are not magical in and of themselves. There is no rule in the books mentioning what you're attempting to accomplish however. Thus you, as the CK, are free to do as you wish.

Thanks for all of the input!

I'll have to play it by ear and the suggestions given are good ones, I know I am going to implement something just to give the elemental creatures a chance against monsters needing magic to hit. It is a slippery slope, but this should not come up too often. I just need to use care when setting a precedent like this, thankfully my players are not an unreasonable lot so if mistakes are made the ruling can be amended later.

Giving higher hit dice elementals some ability to strike foes requiring magic to hit should keep hell from invading an elemental plane and mopping up; not to mention keeping the higher level summoning spells pertinent.

It makes me wonder though, about an iron golem versus flesh golem fight. Neither are magic, both require magic weapons to damage. In my head I can see a clear winner to the flesh golem versus iron golem fight. As CK that one is easier to make a decision on.

In some edition of AD&D, if a monster had to have a certain magical bonus to hit it, it also hit as if it's attacks were that magical bonus (but to hit only). So if a monster needed a +2 or better weapon to be hit, its attack were considered +2 for hitting other creatures with a magical weapon requirement.

That's how I usually do it. It keeps it simple and I don't have to look anything up or remember anything.

R-

Rigon wrote:In some edition of AD&D, if a monster had to have a certain magical bonus to hit it, it also hit as if it's attacks were that magical bonus (but to hit only). So if a monster needed a +2 or better weapon to be hit, its attack were considered +2 for hitting other creatures with a magical weapon requirement.

That's how I usually do it. It keeps it simple and I don't have to look anything up or remember anything.

R-

This.

So a Tarrasque cannot hit something that needs a +1 to hit? Or a T-Rex? The whole magic item to hit thing is a bit odd.. two creatures that each need a +1 to hit but use non-magical natural weapons just annoy each other.. the old DnD DMG books got around this with the HD rule.. I was just noting since the CnC PH has not rules you are free to use your own.. I did not think it was in the CKG so I went older... you know, where CnC sort of came from...

Any way, do as you will, but just be consistent and dare I say it, "logical" for a few different situations.. nothing worse than one rule that works in one case, but sucks in another similar case.

Good luck, Capt.

In 1E AD&D a creature counted as +1 for every 4, or it may have been 6, HD they had. So when it comes up, thats how I call it. The rule was also used in low magic games. IE if you were lucky just to find a +1 weapon style game.

Captain_K wrote:2nd Ed DMG: 4+1 HD or more will hit +1 requirement
6+2 to hit +2 requirement
8+3 to hit +3 requirement
10+4 to hit +4 requirement

and I would assume
13+ to hit +5 requirement

I think the 1st Ed ADD DMG had something similar too.

Just looked it up. It's the same in the 1st Ed DMG (bottom of page 75).

As Rigon pointed out, it also states that an attacker that can be hit only by a +1 weapon or better can hit a defender that can be only hit by a +1 weapon or better ( etc).

Spade, Nice Avatar image.. do it yourself?

Captain_K wrote:Spade, Nice Avatar image.. do it yourself?

No, I have very little artistic abilities. I just did a Google image search for "Fiddler" and picked this one. It didn't seem to have any copyrights attached to it. But thanks for the compliment!