Troll Lord Games

I've been reading Wheel of Time. I am currently on Book 4. It has caused me to pull out my old WoT RPG based on DnD 3E. In there is a prestige class called Blademaster. it is, in my opinion, the coolest prestige class ever! That being said, I once made a Swordmaster class (a rip of the blademaster) https://www.trolllord.com/forums/viewto ... 10&t=14688

Then I was thinking, why should it be limited to a specific class? What if it was a combat maneuver instead (or as an advantage like acrobatic movement). Something like, in addition to attack an attack roll the "Blademaster" would need to make a Seige check to activate the bonus and apply it in place of its attack.

For example:
Parting the Silk: The blademaster may opt to perform a STR-based seige check (CL = Opponents HD). If successful, and after a successful attack roll, do not roll damage. Instead, calculate the normal maximum damage you can inflict with the weapon and deal that damage instead.

seems to be a fundamental change in combat rules

Hm, interesting. At one point I was working on a WoT/C&C adaptation. But I lost interest along the way. I really need o finish the series though. I started reading it back in the early, early 90s.

R-

I like the idea (and the books!), but don't know if it would end up too cumbersome in practice. I seem to remember there were bunches of forms mentioned in the series. Each move would have a "best" counter, so I think each combatant would have to declare a form for each round.

That being said, I think the idea may be best implemented in a consistent campaign world where a certain status and reputation is is awarded for achieving the rank of Blademaster.

Captain_K wrote:seems to be a fundamental change in combat rules

No different than acrobatic maneuver from the ckg. An advantage which enables the pc to make a dex check to activate their sneak attack bonus. Which is another way to implement the forms. Use them as advantages. Personally, I would award them as "treasure" to the devoted . Once awarded they could utilize them as combat options.

I am not a fan of the advantage system as it reminds me of the laundry list of "cannot do" that was d20 but there are ways to implement the ideas without necessarily making it "forced." I would say that allowing someone to deal maximum damage with a simple Strength check may be a bit much... if its not limited. Perhaps something such as smite evil where, on fail, no more attempts and only once or whatever a day anyway. I can imagine a Strength 20 or so barbarian using their ability to automatically succeed at a Strength check, wielding some insane two handed weapon, doing massive damage -- it's not a bad idea, really, but if its every attack then it starts to get pretty boring.

Theres a few options

1 match the phb combat manuevers to fluff descriptions
2 adapt d20 combat feats to match fluff descriptions
3 break down the fluff for all the forms and assign advantages/disadvanages to each....ie +1 to attack, -1 to defense, disarm on a 19 or 20


Heres the manuevers and a list of the seord forms from the wotc wiki




COMBAT MANEUVERS
Players try all manner of inventive actions during combat, from using chairs as shields, trying to dodge opponent’s blows or running haphazardly away from some monstrous beast. It is impossible to enumerate and describe all the possibilities and it is unproductive to try and do so. These generally fall into a category of combat maneuvers.
Some of the more common combat maneuvers and their effects are listed and described below. These rules can be considered optional as they are not necessary to gameplay. They are provided to allow the Castle Keeper and players more options in combat and to introduce the concept of amending and adding rules to fit a group’s style of play. They should be introduced slowly and with practice to insure that they meld with the style and tempo of play desired by both the players and Castle Keeper.
DODGE
In this case, a character can dodge up to three attacks in a round that originate from an attacker(s) which they are facing and are aware of. If dodging, the character sacrifices their action in that round. The character cannot attack, cast spells, move or use an ability or item. The character gains a +2 to their armor class while dodging. A character can dodge every round should they desire. A dodge can be declared at any time in a combat round as long as the character has not taken any other action.
DISENGAGING FROM COMBAT
Disengaging from combat is a dangerous maneuver since it exposes the character to attacks. If disengaging, a character can take no other action. The character is only allowed a movement, which is part of the two types of disengagement. Monsters and non-player characters can disengage from combat. They can also opt to follow those disengaging from combat.
A hasty disengagement is one in which the character or monster attempts to leave combat and expends all effort to do so. A character disengaging hastily may move as far as possible up to their maximum running distance, but they suffer a -2 to armor class and their opponent gets an attack against them as they run away. This is a free attack and does not count against the opponent’s other action in the round, although the opponent may not make a second attack against the fleeing character. The armor class adjustment lasts throughout the combat round and applies to every attack against the fleeing character.
A fighting disengagement is a more carefully executed withdrawal from combat. By performing a fighting disengagement, the character moves one-half their movement rate or less away from their opponent and they can disengage from combat. The character suffers no penalty to armor class, but they cannot take any other action in the round.
DISARM
A fighter, ranger, knight, rogue, assassin, cleric and paladin can disarm an opponent. The character must successfully hit an armor class equivalent of 18 plus the hit dice or level of the defender to successfully disarm them. For example, a ranger would need to hit an armor class of 23 to disarm a 5 hit dice creature or 5th level opponent. The defender receives a dexterity bonus to this armor class, if applicable.
EVADE
This maneuver is a desperate attempt to avoid being hit and involves using all one’s energies to dodge and parry blows but remain engaged in combat. The character doing this is allowed to evade one opponent they are facing. Evade confers a +4 bonus to armor class for that round.
FLANK ATTACK
The flank attack takes place to the left or right rear side of a defender. Flank attacks should be used consistently for monsters and characters alike. The defender may or may not be aware of the attack, but in any case, is less capable of defending against the flank attack than those from the front. A flank attack confers a +1 bonus to hit.
REAR ATTACK
An attack to the rear of an opponent gives the attacker a +2 bonus to hit. The rogue and assassin do not get this in addition to their back attack bonus, as it is already considered in their class abilities.
TWO WEAPON FIGHTING
At some point, characters will attempt to fight with a weapon in both hands. This is a difficult skill to master, and it takes much experience to do it well (see the monk class). When using two weapons, the player must designate which hand is used for the primary attack and which is the off hand attack. Typically, this is determined by the handedness of the character, either right handed or left handed. The character is allowed to swing with both weapons, thus gaining two attacks in a single round, but the attack with the primary hand is at -3 and the attack with the off hand is at -6. These penalties are affected by the character’s dexterity modifier. The character’s strength modifier only applies to damage inflicted.
A monk may use the two-weapon fighting rule to gain a second hand- to-hand attack before the character reaches 6th level. If the monk does so, both attacks suffer the penalties for two-weapon fighting and the secondary attack inflicts normal fist damage of 1d2 hit points. When a monk reaches 6th level, the character gains a secondary hand-to-hand attack. A monk’s secondary hand-to-hand attack ability does not suffer any penalty for two-weapon fighting and it inflicts the damage in the monk special ability chart. But, if a monk at any level fights with a weapon in one hand and attacks with his other hand, whether a primary or secondary attack, the monk suffers the standard penalties for two- weapon fighting and follows the preceding rules in this paragraph as to secondary attack damage.

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Sword_forms?a ... ction=edit


* Cutting the Clouds

* The Cyclone Rages

* Dandelion in the Wind

* The Dove Takes Flight

* Eel Among the Lily Pads

* The Falcon Stoops

* The Falling Leaf

* Folding the Air

* Folding the Fan

* The Grapevine Twines

* The Heron Spreads Its Wings

* Heron Wading in the Rushes

* Hummingbird Kisses the Honeyrose


* Kingfisher Circles the Pond

* The Kingfisher Takes a Silverback

* Kissing the Adder

* Leaf on the Breeze

* Leopard in High Grass

* Leopard in the Tree

* Leopard's Caress

* Lightning of Three Prongs

* Lion on the Hill

* The Lion Springs

* Lizard in the Thornbush

* Lotus Closes Its Blossom

* Low Wind Rising

* Moon on the Water

* The Moon Rises Over the Lakes

* The Moon Rises Over Water

* Oak Shakes Its Branches

* Parting the Silk

* Plucking the Low-Hanging Apple

* Rain in High Wind

* Rat Gnawing the Grain

* Reaping the Barley

* Red Hawk Takes a Dove

* Ribbon in the Air


* River of Light

* The River Undercuts the Bank

* The Rose Unfolds

* Shake Dew from the Branch

* Soft Rain at Sunset

* Stone Falls From the Mountain

* Stones Falling Down the Mountain

* Stones Falling from the Cliff

* Striking the Spark

* The Swallow Rides the Air

* The Swallow Takes Flight

* Thistledown Floats on the Whirlwind

* Threading the Needle

* Tower of Morning

* Twisting the Wind

* Two Hares Leaping

* Unfolding the Fan

* The Viper Flicks Its Tongue

* Water Flows Downhill

* Watered Silk

* Whirlwind on the Mountain

* Wind and Rain

* The Wind Blows Over the Wall


I thought about adding different names to advantages to reflect the blademaster feel. I also considered keeping the "unique" forms I already listed as combat maneuvers but limiting the number of times they could be employed. So first, the PC would have to learn the form from a blademaster to "unlock" the maneuver and then could only draw on their pool of forms a number of times per day equal to their level. This would prevent a PC from using the same form over and over again and still provide them with the opportunity to feel like they doing something different instead of just rolling their attack dice during their turn.

Given the sheer number of them, it might be worthwhile to consider the option as "fighter spells." I would also look into Shadowfist, an AD&D game with very similar concepts.

I would only use a handful of them. There are a lot, as we can see above.

You might consider using the star wars sword forms- i beleive there are seven of those. It might make it more managable

Form I: Shii Cho, also known as the Determination Form. Roughly every Force User was taught this Form when first handed a lightsaber.
Form II: Makashi, also known as the Contention Form. It's design is based on Lightsaber vs. Lightsaber Combat.
Form III: Soresu, also known as the Resilience Form. Its design was based on pure Defense with either ranged or Melee attacks.
Form IV: Ataru, also known as the Aggression Form. Its design is based around high energy attacks and defenses.
Form V: Shien/Djem So, also known as the Perseverance Form. Their design is based on manipulating an opponent's attack.
Form VI: Niman, also known as The Moderation Form. Its design is a conglomeration of the preceding Forms

I've gone back and forth on how I would implement something like this... make it an XP based cost structure, really unlike anything else in C&C, akin to runes from Rune Lore, like advantages from the CKG... or what. My current line of thinking, flawed as it is, is to consider something similar to class-and-a-half but maybe at reduced costs. Of course, that was when there were like 70 maneuvers to consider. With only a handful, how they accrue becomes even more important, especially if they only use each other as prerequisites.