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Optional Secondary Skills in the CKG 
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Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:00 am
Posts: 75
Post Optional Secondary Skills in the CKG
Hi folks,

In looking at the Secondary Skill rules on p.320, I noticed that it states you "do not add their level bonus" to check when using something that might fall under your Secondary Skill training. Instead, you get a simple +1.

In looking at how the Siege Engine works, you generally always add your Level to the check unless you are attempting to do something that falls within the realm of another Class/Race ability (an example would be a Fighter trying to pick a pocket).

That means that having a Secondary Skill would actually be worse than most of your other general Attribute Checks because you wouldn't add your level. It seems that the rule should be that you add your level if you have an applicable Secondary Skill, but those who don't have it would not get to add their level.

What do you folks think?

Relevant to the above - I did have a conversation with Stephen C. on ENWorld, and he agreed with the assessment. I sent it in for errata, and got a response that they would look over the rules for possible future correction. I also clarified with Stephen that the rule on P. 16 of the PHB that states you only add your level when using Class Abilities was incorrect, and the CKG P.283 is accurate with regards to adding levels (i.e. they "are almost always added to an attribute check."). That was also submitted for errata.

Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:54 pm
Red Cap
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:25 am
Posts: 229
Location: South Carolina
Post Re: Optional Secondary Skills in the CKG
I keep it simple and always add character level to any SIEGE check.

The PHB and CKG offer contradictory guidance in this area, so to me, the simplest solution is the preferred solution.

Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:48 pm
Greater Lore Drake
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Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:37 pm
Posts: 2181
Location: North Coast
Post Re: Optional Secondary Skills in the CKG
We use something like the DMG... 3d2 skills to cover things like singing, swimming, riding, silversmith.. etc. Back story and useful things outside your character. Add depth, story, tailoring, and handles things the siege check make unrealistic... if playing the tuba is a dex skill, a 19 dex elf can play flight of the bumble bee with a 20 roll. So have skill to be good at something... don't have the skill you're a rank beginner able to do things beginners do. Swimming without skill is floating if your roll is good and try not to die, dog paddle at best.

As for rolls, skills should not be as good as abilities class or racial.. they should always be at least 6 points worse.. an ability is like a prime and a skill is not. Further the scope of a skill is mundane and the ability is nearly magical or at least mythical.

Some day we need a simple chart on how abilities, class then racial stack next to no class ability attempts... fighters attempting to cast a spell... no chance. mages attempting to move silently, no chance, not silent, only sort of quiet. If you move silent, you are not just quieter than most, you make no sound. Like invisible spell, no see, silent, no sound. Abilities should be like magic.. you do not have the ability, you're in the little leagues.

Adding level to class abilities... adding level to skills you've had since the beginning? Seems logical.. when do you get skills? always learning? Must not be as good at it if you started at 10th lvl... level is also not a good indicator off time... we're at 4th level starting at 1st... took about 6 months real time to play that, but only 2.5 weeks of game time... we do not do training time or costs.

Sounds like a great article for Domesday.

Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:08 pm
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