About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
Post Reply
mostrojoe
Hlobane Orc
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Rome

About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by mostrojoe »

These last months I have "initiated" a friend of mine to the pen&paper RPGs. She has been so happy about it, that succeeded in convincing to play my girlfriend too (a feat I've never been able to do)!

She comes from a purely online experience, being a Warcraft player, and I thought she could never be the right person to play something like D&D/C&C (or any pen&paper rpg for that one). I never played Warcraft and so perhaps I'm wrong, but I've played Diablo so I think it's a similar experience (correct me if you want), and it seems to me that an online rpg is just about killing monsters and maximize your party. There is no narrative.

She revealed herself a great player and she started to ask me a ton of questions. She started to "play" on her mind with her character too, and contacted me to say almost anything this character is doing between an adventure and the other. And this includes a lot of interpersonal interaction with NPCs, and a lot of messing with her equipment, common items, house furnitures too. I was used, perhaps with more pratical male players, to just consider very basic equipments, while she wanted to read the whole list of the Adventurer's Backpack manual. And my girlfriend did the same.

So she bought a whetstone, a sewing kit, oil for armor and weapon mantainace etc. Then started to ask if her clothes were worn or not, she wrote me to say her character wanted to accurately mantain and care her sword and if it was damaged after the long adventure we did (I used the old B1 module, go figure).

This long preamble to say that thanks to her inputs I searched the CKG for the rules about equipment wastage, many pages that I never really used. I found them... somewhat messy. Too simple or too intricate. Basically, I have really understand, they say to make a sort of saving throw after an adventure, one for common equipment, one for armors and weapons. No modifiers. Then there is a a very long sequence of tables that are mostly unclear and have saving throws for every sort of material and every sort of damage.

Someone use them? Someone has ever found them playable? Or it is just a wasted chapter?

Now yes, I know I can just say "your clothes are a little worn but they are still ok" being the CK. And I know that 95% of players perhaps have never bothered with such things, perhaps any of you are the kind of players "I don't mind about my boots, let's go for another adventure".

Whatever, I started to make up in my mind some rules, something about a roll for the common equipment and a roll for the arms and armors, but I started to think too that a character that is particularly aware of his things (and the player is very descriptive about that and cares a lot) could enjoy some advantage. And I started to take in consideration items of the equipment list I never considered before, like the sewing kit.

Any of you has some little rules in mind to use obscure items from the equipment list? I, for an example, am thinking about a little bonus for the items saving throw. If you have the sewing kit, just to throw some numbers, you have perhaps a +1 or +2. If you use whetstone and oil you have +1 or +3 if you use them together. If there's a wizard in your party that has the mending spell you can have a +4 etc. I don't know. And yes, these are minutiae that many of you really don't care about but this player in particular do and the CKG has a whole chapter about that!

Also I don't like very much the fact that in pag.182, with the 9.2 table, items gets rapidly old. If you have seen that rule, if an item is new it has a saving throw. If it passes the ST the item is now used anyway, if the ST is not passed the item must be thrown away and bought again. I don't know, that means you could buy very often the whole boots/vest/cape/belt etc series of clothes, without talking about backpack, sacks and pots, and musical instruments and such. Or you can buy again and again your chainmail armor! Now ok, soon or later you should get some new pair of shoes, but with those rules it seems it can happen too often. And they say there is no modifier.
It is not very fun, obviously, to make a ST for every single piece of equipment, so there must be a middle ground somewhere.

Someone use those rules? Some idea? I have mine but I've written a very long post yet and I prefer to hear yours. Please don't write a long series of replies that just say "Why mess with such things? Say to your player that her trousers are patched up and go to kill monsters in the next adventure!" because obvioulsy I know I could.
But I just wanted to see if someone uses the CKG chapter 9 and if you have your opinion about those rules. And if you developed some alternatives for some player that likes to roleplay everything.

User avatar
DMSamuel
Red Cap
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:48 am
Location: Downstate NY
Contact:

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by DMSamuel »

I use equipment wastage rules, here are my houserules, which I feel are simple enough and easy to follow, and also reward those that care about such things as sewing kits and whetstones.

Wastage rolls are triggered by:
1) PC rolls a 1 on an attack.
2) Enemy attacker rolls a 20 on an attack.
3) If the PC is successfully attacked by an especially powerful creature or a creature with an especially caustic attack (acid, fire, etc).
4) Prolonged or excess exposure to an extreme environmental condition (magma, pool of acid, etc).

When a wastage roll is triggered:
1) The roll is made next time PCs are camping or resting for the night. This way I don't have the weapon break right in the middle of combat, but it will be something they notice while inspecting their equipment.
2) A wastage roll is an unmodified d20 roll.
  • On a roll of 1 or 2 the equipment has suffered damage requiring a blacksmith’s attention.
  • If the wastage was triggered by a fumble (1 on to-hit roll), the PC’s weapon has suffered and the weapon’s damage drops by 2 points.
  • If the wastage was triggered by an enemy’s critical hit (20 on to-hit roll), the PC’s armor or shield (or both) has suffered and the PC’s AC drops by 2 points.
3) Wastage is cumulative.
4) Mundane equipment that is used for weapon maintenance (sewing kits, whetstones, etc) don't add a bonus to the roll - instead, they make it so that the wastage effect is reduced by 1 automatically (upon the PC's decision to expend one use of the kit) and the PC can make a SIEGE check (using the challenge class tables in the CKG) to reduce the damage by 1 extra point.
  • A PC can only attempt to mend a piece of equipment this way (with a SIEGE check) once per day per weapon.
  • Mundane mending equipment has 1d4+1 uses (roll when purchasing).
~DMSamuel
---
Website: RPG Musings
Actual Play C&C in Aihrde: Epi 1, Epi 2
Actual Play Podcast (5e): D&DeBrief

User avatar
Grandpa
Red Cap
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Grandpa »

Just assess a certain amount of coin for clothing for when adventuring. And a certain amount for equipment wastage and maintenance when adventuring. Probably of % of the total cost of the equipment and clothing. Anything more detailed than that is boring unless they are in teh wilds for a LONG time then it can be part of problems to overcome.

User avatar
DMSamuel
Red Cap
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:48 am
Location: Downstate NY
Contact:

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by DMSamuel »

Grandpa wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:23 pm
Just assess a certain amount of coin for clothing for when adventuring. And a certain amount for equipment wastage and maintenance when adventuring. Probably of % of the total cost of the equipment and clothing. Anything more detailed than that is boring unless they are in teh wilds for a LONG time then it can be part of problems to overcome.
But what he is saying is that his players are interested in dealing with this sort of issue and he wants ideas on how to keep it interesting but simple. Just handwaving the idea and charging a % cost doesn't really solve the issue he is having.
~DMSamuel
---
Website: RPG Musings
Actual Play C&C in Aihrde: Epi 1, Epi 2
Actual Play Podcast (5e): D&DeBrief

User avatar
Grandpa
Red Cap
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Grandpa »

DMSamuel wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:27 pm

But what he is saying is that his players are interested in dealing with this sort of issue and he wants ideas on how to keep it interesting but simple. Just handwaving the idea and charging a % cost doesn't really solve the issue he is having.
Let the OP respond

User avatar
DMSamuel
Red Cap
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:48 am
Location: Downstate NY
Contact:

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by DMSamuel »

Grandpa wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:34 pm
DMSamuel wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:27 pm

But what he is saying is that his players are interested in dealing with this sort of issue and he wants ideas on how to keep it interesting but simple. Just handwaving the idea and charging a % cost doesn't really solve the issue he is having.
Let the OP respond
Sure thing. Wasn't trying to undercut the OP... just having a conversation.
~DMSamuel
---
Website: RPG Musings
Actual Play C&C in Aihrde: Epi 1, Epi 2
Actual Play Podcast (5e): D&DeBrief

User avatar
Go0gleplex
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 3737
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 7:00 am
Location: Keizer, OR

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Go0gleplex »

Just an option: A simple simple way to deal with armor and weapons is to just assign them a durability rather than rolling a saving throw for them every time. This can be something as simple as using their max damage/AC bonus modified for enchantment. Example: A typical longsword of average quality would have a Durability of 8 (does d8 dmg). If it is an exceptional quality (expert type weapon) then the Durability would be 9 or 10. If it were a magical weapon with a +1 enchantment then it might have a durability of 16. While on an adventure, the sword gets dinged up a bit by several fumbles and a passing encounter with an acidic slime reducing its durability from 8 to 2. So it needs the weapon smith's attention to restore the durability, say 1/10 the weapon's original cost per point and a day or three. If not maintained, the next bad hit or parried crit will snap the sword in the middle of battle. Yes, it adds a bit of record keeping...but it's simple record keeping and easy to implement. Badly damaged weapons or armor can also have their maximum damage / AC bonus reduced until repaired as well. Might not be for everyone, but it IS one method to use.

Sewing kits, mending spells, whetstones, etc. can allow limited ad hoc field repairs to damaged equipment and get used up in the process as well. Clothing and such like that are going to get torn up in combat along with everything else or in situations that require saves, such as running pell mell thru a thorn bush thicket. A certain amount of things like this will revert to the rule of common sense; or should at any rate.
"Rolling dice and killing characters since September 1976."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."

mostrojoe
Hlobane Orc
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Rome

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by mostrojoe »

DMSamuel wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:49 pm

Wastage rolls are triggered by:
1) PC rolls a 1 on an attack.
2) Enemy attacker rolls a 20 on an attack.
3) If the PC is successfully attacked by an especially powerful creature or a creature with an especially caustic attack (acid, fire, etc).
4) Prolonged or excess exposure to an extreme environmental condition (magma, pool of acid, etc).
Yes I take in consideration this rule too.
DMSamuel wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:49 pm
4) Mundane equipment that is used for weapon maintenance (sewing kits, whetstones, etc) don't add a bonus to the roll - instead, they make it so that the wastage effect is reduced by 1 automatically (upon the PC's decision to expend one use of the kit) and the PC can make a SIEGE check (using the challenge class tables in the CKG) to reduce the damage by 1 extra point.
  • A PC can only attempt to mend a piece of equipment this way (with a SIEGE check) once per day per weapon.
  • Mundane mending equipment has 1d4+1 uses (roll when purchasing).
I do not really understand how you make it work. Can you please make a clarifying example? :)

I like the idea of a number of uses for mundane equipment. The equipment list, for an example, says that the flint and steel box has 10 uses. So why not the other "consumable" kits? I think 1d4+1 is a little low, but it's a good idea.
Grandpa wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:23 pm
Just assess a certain amount of coin for clothing for when adventuring. And a certain amount for equipment wastage and maintenance when adventuring. Probably of % of the total cost of the equipment and clothing. Anything more detailed than that is boring unless they are in teh wilds for a LONG time then it can be part of problems to overcome.
That's not a bad idea, and perhaps I could have used in other moments, but at this time it's not what my player wants. For an example, another player, when he heard what she was asking, said "I don't mind about manteinance! My dwarf is a badass and does not want to sew! When my backpack is worn out I am just going to buy another one and f***k off". So there are two different situations: she describes in details how she tends for her equipment, he says openly that he doesn't cares and just want to know when it's time to buy something new. My girlfriend has instead started to ask me how she can keep her druidic iron hatchet in good shape. And wants to know if there are differences with the steel equivalent. I said no for easiness, but I'll see. She bought two different wardrobes for her druidess, so she has now an outfit for adventuring and an outfit when she's NOT adventuring :?

Anyway it seems none of you uses the CKG Chapter 9 as is. Those long tables are very confusing indeed.

mostrojoe
Hlobane Orc
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Rome

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by mostrojoe »

Go0gleplex wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:02 pm
but it's simple record keeping and easy to implement. Badly damaged weapons or armor can also have their maximum damage / AC bonus reduced until repaired as well. Might not be for everyone, but it IS one method to use
That's another good take. It seems to me that there's an optional rule in the CKG that just assign hit points to the armors.

User avatar
Grandpa
Red Cap
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Grandpa »

mostrojoe wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:17 am

That's not a bad idea, and perhaps I could have used in other moments, but at this time it's not what my player wants.
Cool, then have the players create a system and present it to you.

User avatar
Captain_K
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:37 pm
Location: North Coast

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Captain_K »

Stuff just wears out. Magic on magic still wears out, just fantastically as you see fit.
What the CK Give'th, the CK Take'th.

Simple % roll in town after a hard adventure on what needs fixing or replacement.

Gets boring after a while, so a % of your loot goes to replacement.
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

User avatar
Persimmon
Red Cap
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:11 am

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Persimmon »

I just deduct an upkeep cost roughly equivalent to one of the custom backpacks after each adventure if they want the maintain the same equipment. New stuff costs the list price of course. Then I'll usually deduct for rents, guild fees, tithes, etc.
Behind closed eyes, realize your sight....

User avatar
DMSamuel
Red Cap
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:48 am
Location: Downstate NY
Contact:

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by DMSamuel »

mostrojoe wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:17 am
DMSamuel wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:49 pm
4) Mundane equipment that is used for weapon maintenance (sewing kits, whetstones, etc) don't add a bonus to the roll - instead, they make it so that the wastage effect is reduced by 1 automatically (upon the PC's decision to expend one use of the kit) and the PC can make a SIEGE check (using the challenge class tables in the CKG) to reduce the damage by 1 extra point.
  • A PC can only attempt to mend a piece of equipment this way (with a SIEGE check) once per day per weapon.
  • Mundane mending equipment has 1d4+1 uses (roll when purchasing).
I do not really understand how you make it work. Can you please make a clarifying example? :)
Absolutley!

Example 1:
Fighter PC rolls a 1 in combat. I make a hashmark on my paper to remind me he needs to roll wastage when the party rests next.
At next rest, I ask player to roll a wastage for the fighter PC.
He rolls a 2, so discovers that some of his equipment needs repair. In this case, his sword.
As a result of the wastage, his sword now does 1d8-2 damage instead of the normal 1d8.
PC has a whetstone, and player chooses to use it in this situation, so expends one use of the whetstone (puts a hashmark on his equipment list).
Use of whetstone automatically reduces wastage effect by 1, so sword now does 1d8-1 instead of 1d8-2.
Player makes an unmodified siege check against a challenge class of 12 (see my note about table 9.2 below) to see if they can reduce the other point of wastage effect.
Player rolls a 14, so the other point of wastage damage is negated - sword has been fully repaired!
If player had rolled a 10, they would have still suffered 1 point of wastage damage and their sword would permanently do only 1d8-1 damage.

Example 2:
Opponent attacking Fighter PC rolls a 20 in combat. I make a hashmark on my paper to remind me he needs to roll wastage when the party rests next.
At next rest, I ask player to roll a wastage for the fighter PC.
He rolls a 2, so discovers that some of his equipment needs repair. In this case, his armor.
As a result of the wastage, his AC is now at a -2.
PC has a sewing kit (or armor oil or mallet/awl/pliers) and player chooses to use it in this situation, so expends one use of the kit (puts a hashmark on his equipment list).
Use of kit automatically reduces wastage effect by 1, so AC is now only at a -1 instead of -2.
Player makes an unmodified siege check against a challenge class of 12 (see my note about table 9.2 below) to see if they can reduce the other point of wastage effect.
Player rolls a 14, so the other point of wastage damage is negated - armor has been fully repaired!
If player had rolled a 10, they would have still suffered 1 point of wastage damage and their AC would be at a -1.

I use a Siege check CC of 12 as a baseline, but if you wanted to get more specific, you could use the numbers on table 9.2, especially if you wanted to track the condition of equipment over all. Table 9.2 puts equipment into two type categories (clothing vs gear) and into 4 condition categories (new, used, worn, threadbare) so you could say that after being repaired 3 times, the clothing/gear is now in the threadbare category, and therefore not subject to further repair, if you wanted to so and the players found it interesting.
mostrojoe wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:17 am
I like the idea of a number of uses for mundane equipment. The equipment list, for an example, says that the flint and steel box has 10 uses. So why not the other "consumable" kits? I think 1d4+1 is a little low, but it's a good idea.
The reason for the low yield is that a sewing kit costs only 5 silver pieces. I want it to be useful, but not have an outsized use for the price. They will get a minimum of 2 uses or a maximum of 5 uses out of it. I think that is fair for a kit that costs 5 sp and is saving the AC of the character. PLUS, every time they use it it automatically works for at least half the wastage effect.

The whetstone may get more uses (up to CK, of course), maybe d6+2, which represents the whetstone being used almost every time the PCs rest, and the few times it will be needed for wastage a part of it is used until there isn't enough left to be effective for repair.
mostrojoe wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:17 am
Anyway it seems none of you uses the CKG Chapter 9 as is. Those long tables are very confusing indeed.
Well, I do use the longer monster tables when the party has come up against a very tough monster or the main villain or with prolonged exposure to an extreme environment, as noted in my original post as what triggers a wastage effect, here:
3) If the PC is successfully attacked by an especially powerful creature or a creature with an especially caustic attack (acid, fire, etc).
4) Prolonged or excess exposure to an extreme environmental condition (magma, pool of acid, etc).

I use the CC values on the monster tables in chapter 9... here is an example:

Thief PC is fighting a formidable creature that spits acid.
Thief PC wears leather armor and the great beast, a huge creature of my own making that is a mix between a centipede and a toad, vomits acid onto the thief's chest.
The leather armor sizzles and pits and a pungent odor wafts up to the nostrils of the Thief PC.
After defeating the beast the party finds a place to camp for the night and I ask the Thief PC's player to roll a wastage roll.
(or, if appropriate, at the moment when the damage occurs the CK can ask for a roll, CK's choice)
The player rolls a 1, so wastage applies to his leather armor.
His armor is heavily damaged and his AC is now at a -2.
PC has a sewing kit and chooses to use it in this situation, so expends one use of the kit (puts a hashmark on his equipment list).
Use of kit automatically reduces wastage effect by 1, so AC is now only at a -1 instead of -2.
Now is when I go to table 9.6 in the CKG, which tells me the Challenge Class for the Siege Check - that is, the number that the PC must meet or beat in order for him to repair his armor fully.
Table 9.6 tells me that the CC for an acid attack on leather is 15. The player needs to roll an unmodified siege check and get a 15 or better to repair the other point of damage.
If the entry in table 9.6 says BREAK, the item breaks completely and cannot be repaired.

If the PC who took the acid hit had been wearing iron armor, I would have used table 9.3 to find the CC for the roll (would have been a CC of 11).

So I use the same basic system, but the extra tables in the CKG chapter 9 give me different challenge class numbers based on the type of material being affected and where the damage comes from. One of the tables is for specific creatures, but if you create your own monsters, those tables would be useless, so the chapter also gives the CK tables based on damage type and size of creature and a wide variety of types of affected materials. I love the tables and find them extremely useful for determining the likelihood of a type of material getting damaged by a creature attack.


Also note that the initial wastage roll I have the player roll in my system always has a flat 10% chance of causing wastage. Add that to the fact that either the PC has to roll a 1 (5% chance every d20 roll) or an opponent has to roll a 20 (5% chance every d20 roll) to even trigger the wastage roll (which will have a 10% chance of causing wastage)... all of that leads to the case where wastage doesn't apply very often, but there is a high enough chance of it happening that the party will feel good about investing in some sewing kits, whetstones, and armor oil.
~DMSamuel
---
Website: RPG Musings
Actual Play C&C in Aihrde: Epi 1, Epi 2
Actual Play Podcast (5e): D&DeBrief

mostrojoe
Hlobane Orc
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Rome

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by mostrojoe »

Thanks a lot :) very kind of you to write these detailed examples.
A precious suggestion, I think I will definitively use some of these hints. This way the player will feel her efforts (that she wants to describe me so in detail) are worthy.

User avatar
Captain_K
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:37 pm
Location: North Coast

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Captain_K »

I have never had or even heard of a player with that level of detail for equipment.

Had plenty of hoarders....

keep you unicorn happy until it drives you crazy
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

mostrojoe
Hlobane Orc
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Rome

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by mostrojoe »

Captain_K wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:28 pm
I have never had or even heard of a player with that level of detail for equipment.
Hope the girls will put lesser attention once the first levels are behind...

User avatar
Grandpa
Red Cap
Posts: 228
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Grandpa »

mostrojoe wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:21 am
Captain_K wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:28 pm
I have never had or even heard of a player with that level of detail for equipment.
Hope the girls will put lesser attention once the first levels are behind...
After a couple of PCs are killed while darning their socks the importance of stocking thimbles will lose its luster...

mostrojoe
Hlobane Orc
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:00 am
Location: Rome

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by mostrojoe »

Grandpa wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:30 pm
mostrojoe wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:21 am
Captain_K wrote:
Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:28 pm
I have never had or even heard of a player with that level of detail for equipment.
Hope the girls will put lesser attention once the first levels are behind...
After a couple of PCs are killed while darning their socks the importance of stocking thimbles will lose its luster...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
Lurker
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 4168
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:00 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Lurker »

This may be a tangent to the OP but it may fit or may help expand the idea

My girls and one of their friends recently started playing and one thing I am trying to do is get them to break out of their painfully shy mindset. So I encourage role playing not just in the adventure but in the town when they get back from killing giant spiders or chasing off a swarm of large rats etc.

One thing I did, since I made the setting more historic feeling than standard D&D with gold and silver flowing like milk and honey, is make the payments for the adventures being barterable items. You killed 20 L rats and that night while you slept the farmers' sons gathered them up skinned them and scraped and stretched the skins. You will need to tan them yourself, or you can see if you can barter the skins at the tanner's. At the tanner's she notices your armor is taking a beating so she says she will trade all those skins you have so she can make velum from them and you can use her name with the leather worker to get a reduced cost to repair your armor.

The next adventure was to a farmer .. I forgot what they killed, but he didn't have money so he gave them a portion of the wool he shaved off his sheep, they took it into town and traded it and are getting new nice cloths and a good set of cold cloaks etc.

Like I said isn't a rule to answer the OP, but if your players have that mindset, they may like rewards like that instead of just gold and silver.
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

User avatar
Captain_K
Greater Lore Drake
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:37 pm
Location: North Coast

Re: About new players, the CKG wastage rules and other considerations - long post

Post by Captain_K »

yep barter is better, as you trade something you do not need or want or a skill you have for something you need or want... the gold was just in intermediary... but gets hard to carry about.. so you get a bag of holding.... so you carry tons about.... but in the end you are trading. much more fun to swap directly.
Wow, Another Natural One! You guys are a sink hole for luck. Stay away from my dice.

Post Reply