Low/er magic campaign

[paladinn]

Thinking of starting a campaign that would really focus on martial characters. I don't want to eliminate all magic (especially healing magic); but I don't want casters taking center stage all the time.

Most classes I can use as-is. I much prefer the spell-less versions of paladins, rangers and bards anyway.

I'm thinking of using the Amazing Adventures version of the pugilist instead of the monk. Most of the same combat abilities without all the mysticism.

I want to include some version of the cleric, but maybe not with the same range of spell-casting. I would actually be tempted to have a spell-casting paladin instead, maybe with more healing abilities and less combat?

For "mages", I'm thinking of using the AA mentalist. It's definitely not "spell casting", but it is a "sort of" magic. Not as powerful but not as squishy either. But I wouldn't mind a Limited casting class either.

Any suggestions?

[Go0gleplex]

If you can find a copy of the rules; look up Pendragon as a good reference for low magic campaign play.

[Persimmon]

Have you considered the Magic-user from Adventurers Backpack? They can use items, read scrolls and the like, but aren't regular casters. This could really shine in a sort of post-magic world where there's stuff left over from a high magic age put it's poorly understood. You could have vestiges of magic still there, but it wouldn't be over the top.

And while I hate the mechanics, the various versions of The One Ring or Adventures in Middle Earth are basically low magic and can give you some ideas for implementing things. You might, for example, keep some kind of Rune Magic in the game. Depends on exactly what vibe you're going for.

[Persimmon]

And for healing, just come up with a few herbs, potions, and perhaps healing proficiencies for certain classes. Think of Elrond or Aragorn.

[paladinn]

I don't think I want to go That low magic. Just maybe not the full monty like the btb wizard or cleric. Maybe like 1/3 - 1/2 the spell progression, or some spell-like equivalent. For example, the C&C paladin would be great for a "cleric" if it had more healing.

I know the CKG (I think) has guidelines for spells for paladins and bards. Maybe let paladins and bards cast accordingly and use them as cleric and wizard analogs.

Pondering

[Grandpa]

Maybe let paladins and bards cast accordingly and use them as cleric and wizard analogs.

Pondering

I think this is the easiest/fastest road to get what you want. It has the advantage of not just being a nerfed cleric or wizard as there are other built in class abilities to compensate for low spell ability and allow meaningful contribution to the group.

[Lurker]

Maybe let paladins and bards cast accordingly and use them as cleric and wizard analogs.

Pondering

I think this is the easiest/fastest road to get what you want. It has the advantage of not just being a nerfed cleric or wizard as there are other built in class abilities to compensate for low spell ability and allow meaningful contribution to the group.

Rgr on that, or if you do want spell slinger classes you could severely limit the spells they have access to and keep a tight rein on they spells they get.

You can also introduce a spell casting ability check for the character to even cast the spell. I did in my home brew and it worked really well. Ramps up the tension when the cleric needs to make a skill check to save another PC and they have already failed 2 spell casting checks.

However, like Gran pointed out it you scale back on the caster abilities/power, you will need it countered with something to keep them being a contributing part of the group.

[Persimmon]

Adventurers Backpack has the spellcasting rangers, bards, and paladins, along with specialized spell lists for each. The forthcoming Swords & Chaos RPG will have mechanics for spell checks & corruption that should also limit florid spellcasting.

[paladinn]

Has anyone seen a good treatment of a Sorcerer class for C&C?

[Buttmonkey]

I want to include some version of the cleric, but maybe not with the same range of spell-casting. I would actually be tempted to have a spell-casting paladin instead, maybe with more healing abilities and less combat?

...

Any suggestions?

You might consider only allowing clerics as a secondary class using the class-and-a-half rules and then reducing the number of spells they get and/or limiting the list of available spells. Using class-and-a-half, the PC would not be able to cast 1st level spells until the PC is second level.

I'm sure someone else mentioned this idea above, but you should introduce non-magical healing methods like herbs and poultices. It would make a lot of sense to add Herbal Healing as a class ability for rangers and druids. You could also potentially let everyone be capable of it as a form of common knowledge, but allow rangers and druids to be even better at it. You might consider this as a starting point:

Herbal Healing

Any PC may use herbs to heal an injured character. Herbs may potentially purchased in town (say, 1 gp or 1 sp per hit point of damage to be healed) or foraged in the wilderness (1 hour of searching per hit point of damage to be healed). A maximum of 6 hit points can be healed per day per character using herbs. A druid or ranger is capable of foraging enough herbs to heal 2 points of damage per hour of foraging. A druid or ranger can heal a maximum of 12 hit points of damage per day per character.

[paladinn]

You might consider only allowing clerics as a secondary class using the class-and-a-half rules and then reducing the number of spells they get and/or limiting the list of available spells. Using class-and-a-half, the PC would not be able to cast 1st level spells until the PC is second level.

I'm already going to do this for the cleric. In OD&D they didn't get spells till L2 anyway.

[Captain_K]

Just set the world, ban the classes, move on.

Will there be evil wizards as enemies?

Make the magic currupting? What is the theme of the world? No monsters either.

How does this hold together?

[Persimmon]

Just set the world, ban the classes, move on.

Will there be evil wizards as enemies?

Make the magic currupting? What is the theme of the world? No monsters either.

How does this hold together?

Good points. One thing I've done to change the tone of my homebrew world for different campaigns is set adventures at different times in its history. So I can point to some major cataclysmic event as being the reason magic works differently, certain races are more prominent, etc.

But when I get "Swords & Chaos" I'm just going to use their setting since it seems well-suited to what that game is trying to do. Plus, I have a very demi-human heavy homebrew setting.

[maximus]

Thinking of starting a campaign that would really focus on martial characters. I don't want to eliminate all magic (especially healing magic); but I don't want casters taking center stage all the time.

Most classes I can use as-is. I much prefer the spell-less versions of paladins, rangers and bards anyway.

I'm thinking of using the Amazing Adventures version of the pugilist instead of the monk. Most of the same combat abilities without all the mysticism.

I want to include some version of the cleric, but maybe not with the same range of spell-casting. I would actually be tempted to have a spell-casting paladin instead, maybe with more healing abilities and less combat?

For "mages", I'm thinking of using the AA mentalist. It's definitely not "spell casting", but it is a "sort of" magic. Not as powerful but not as squishy either. But I wouldn't mind a Limited casting class either.

Any suggestions?

We've used both the Pugilist and Mentalist in a more gothic/horror game rather than straight AA. @Lurker, help me out here. Were there abilities altered at all? I think these would fit well into a lower magic setting

[serleran]

Rather than remove spellcasting per se, change the casting times to turns/hours, decreasing by use of specific types of items like amulets, scrolls, wands, etc. Any class capable of learning magic must first locate the spell somehow (lost grimoires are good) and then, once they know the spell, they can attempt to cast it.

This greatly reduces the use of combat magic and relegates most casting to "downtime." It may be possible to have "inherent" knowledge (demon pacts) that can allow casting of spells quicker, but I would not suggest going to a single round/"phase"/segment. Throw in some warp a la Warhammer and you've got magic that only the bad guys use... often.

It gets a bit more Cthulhu if you allow any class to learn spells - the foundation of which is similar to, possibly (I'm not telling you to use it, only think how it might be usable), the runemark C&C concept.

[Fizz]

It depends on what one means by "low" or "lower" magic, because it can be used in multiple ways.

If you mean that magic is less powerful (ie, higher level spells are not available) that can be addressed just by removing those levels, or making the casting of such magics much more difficult. The Midnight campaign setting has a version of this- it uses an alternative magic system, which means a spellcaster would cast far fewer high level spells. This class (the channeler) has extra skills / benefits to compensate. The setting also has rules for herbalism, allowing some benefits that would normally be due to magic.

If you mean that magic is less common (ie, powerful magic exists, but it's not available to normal folk), there are a couple ways to do that. You might require the wizard class have more stringent requirements (minimum Int of 15 or something). In Birthright, to cast "True Magic", the caster must have magical blood: either a divine bloodline (need to know the settings history to understand that) or be an elf. Thus characters that can use powerful magic are few and far between.

-Fizz

[Fizz]

Has anyone seen a good treatment of a Sorcerer class for C&C?

It should be almost trivial, no? Just change the spell table and steal the table for number of spells known. That's the only difference between wizard and sorcerer, isn't it? (Note I'm thinking 3E, i know the 5E version has a few more differences.)

-Fizz

[Grandpa]

Has anyone seen a good treatment of a Sorcerer class for C&C?

It should be almost trivial, no? Just change the spell table and steal the table for number of spells known. That's the only difference between wizard and sorcerer, isn't it? (Note I'm thinking 3E, i know the 5E version has a few more differences.)

-Fizz

Duh, I forgot about the 3E treatment. Yes, should port right over to C&C no problemo.

[Lurker]

We've used both the Pugilist and Mentalist in a more gothic/horror game rather than straight AA. @Lurker, help me out here. Were there abilities altered at all? I think these would fit well into a lower magic setting

Rgr we had a Pugilist/Mentalist in the Masque game. I used class and a half but other than that it was by the book. Rgr it would work great in a lower magic setting.