Double Edge System
A modified FATE aspect system for Castles & Crusades. What do y'all think? It's not terribly inventive but I think that it's more what I'm after rather than a concrete skill system.
3 Aspects at character creation:
* Skills (Gem cutting, rock climbing)
* Professions (Blacksmith, Apothecary)
* Traits (Nimble, Greedy)
Edge Points:
* 5 Edge (FATE) points +1 per level
* Refresh when CK says so
* 1 Gained when invoked by CKSpend Edge Points to:
* Re-roll 1d20
* Invoke character and scene aspects for +2 each
* Boost any +2 modifier to +1d4
* Boost any +3 modifier to +1d6
* Boost any +4 modifier to +1d8
* Boost any +5 modifier to +1d10
Double Edge System for C&C
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Gnostic Gnoll
- Ungern
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:00 am
Hm. I generally like the idea, but I'm not fond of rerolls. Spending special points just to get a second chance at the same odds doesn't feel so special. Especially when the die involved is a d20. I'd recommend auto success, auto 20, or a defined increment that gets added to the roll.
But that's me.
But that's me.
Gnostic Gnoll wrote:
Hm. I generally like the idea, but I'm not fond of rerolls. Spending special points just to get a second chance at the same odds doesn't feel so special. Especially when the die involved is a d20. I'd recommend auto success, auto 20, or a defined increment that gets added to the roll.
But that's me.
I did think about adding +2 to the roll for the expenditure of an Edge point but it seemed to step on the toes of aspect invocation so I went with a re-roll. I figure that someone would only reroll if the first roll was really atrocious and even with aspect invocation the task would be hopeless.
Hmm... I'm open for any kind of tweaking.
Im intrigued - like idea of professions and skills and traits to further cement character profile in some tangible game mechanics - its a must in my book - have not figured how to achieve this yet - have you worked up traits and professions etc? Iron Heroes has a neat traits rules section.
I would maybe as a player prefer a bonus to succeed rather than a reroll...Now how does the new runequest handel this...
cheers
Alex D
I would maybe as a player prefer a bonus to succeed rather than a reroll...Now how does the new runequest handel this...
cheers
Alex D
I haven't worked out traits yet. I'm looking at it as being very free form and open as an idea that can be pinned down for specific games/settings.
I just want to clarify about the re-roll. That's just one item on the menu for spending an Edge point. If a player wants to get a straight up bonus to succeed then they just invoke one of their aspects or a scene aspect.
For example, they're in a dark cave where brigands have been hiding all night and the ambush has been sprung. A player who has been ambushed can spend an Edge point and get a +2 bonus declaring that the brigand attacking him is stiff and slower from waiting in the cold for such a long time. It's pretty powerful and empowers the players a lot but their power is quite limited by the number of Edge points available.
The re-roll option should be invoked only if a player rolls really, really badly and for example, the only chance of success after declaring "Cold and Damp" on the cave is a re-roll.
Straight-up bonuses are available everywhere; descriptions/aspects of the scene and those of the character(s). With this system, players can find out and invoke negative aspects of other characters as well.
This is why I'm leery of dropping/changing the re-roll to a straight up bonus to success. The straight up option is already there and essentially surrounds the characters at all times.
I just want to clarify about the re-roll. That's just one item on the menu for spending an Edge point. If a player wants to get a straight up bonus to succeed then they just invoke one of their aspects or a scene aspect.
For example, they're in a dark cave where brigands have been hiding all night and the ambush has been sprung. A player who has been ambushed can spend an Edge point and get a +2 bonus declaring that the brigand attacking him is stiff and slower from waiting in the cold for such a long time. It's pretty powerful and empowers the players a lot but their power is quite limited by the number of Edge points available.
The re-roll option should be invoked only if a player rolls really, really badly and for example, the only chance of success after declaring "Cold and Damp" on the cave is a re-roll.
Straight-up bonuses are available everywhere; descriptions/aspects of the scene and those of the character(s). With this system, players can find out and invoke negative aspects of other characters as well.
This is why I'm leery of dropping/changing the re-roll to a straight up bonus to success. The straight up option is already there and essentially surrounds the characters at all times.
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Gnostic Gnoll
- Ungern
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:00 am
Eisenmann wrote:
The re-roll option should be invoked only if a player rolls really, really badly and for example, the only chance of success after declaring "Cold and Damp" on the cave is a re-roll.
Well that seems fair. I've been fond of loosely-defined character traits ever since I found out about them, but I never thought of applying them to the environment which is really cool.
You're right though, a fixed increase steps on the toes of Aspect invocation. What I was really thinking about when I posted was auto-success, but that has its own issues too. It's only a good substitute for re-rolls if re-rolling is the only option the system gives you. And I've seen a few of those before, so my thoughts were kind of stuck on them. If you mix auto-success in with a point-boosting system, though, then the question becomes "Why am I spending points to boost my rolls when I could just succeed automatically for the same price?"
So the re-roll actually makes more sense there. My mistake. Carry on!
Quote:
Why am I spending points to boost my rolls when I could just succeed automatically for the same price?"
Because an auto-success is just that, a success. If there are "levels of success" or "criticals" then simply being able to do it makes it simultaneously impossible to do "better" at it, unlike a reroll which has the potential for even better success, especially if it has a step mod. This makes it a more strategic decision -- do I chance doing even better, or failing... or do I just get it done?
Now, if this type of situation doesn't exist, there may still be a reason to use a reroll rather than an auto-success,but generally only when the odds for success are high to start with, and the failed result was a "fluke" (like rolling a 100 when you've got a 99% to succeed.)
serleran wrote:
Because an auto-success is just that, a success. If there are "levels of success" or "criticals" then simply being able to do it makes it simultaneously impossible to do "better" at it, unlike a reroll which has the potential for even better success, especially if it has a step mod. This makes it a more strategic decision -- do I chance doing even better, or failing... or do I just get it done?
Now, if this type of situation doesn't exist, there may still be a reason to use a reroll rather than an auto-success,but generally only when the odds for success are high to start with, and the failed result was a "fluke" (like rolling a 100 when you've got a 99% to succeed.)
Levels of success sounds interesting. How are you handling that in your game?
In general, I don't, but there are instances where a particular application of a SIEGE roll may be the same difficulty regardless of finesse, but the result might vary based on outcome...for example, its easy to make a sword (relatively speaking, and if you know how), but if you do exceptionally well at it, the sword comes out even better... and, likewise, by failing miserably, you get a sword of craptastic quality. How this is handled is by setting a difficulty, say, of 8. Each "step"of the same difficulty equals +1 level of success, with some things having a logical limit (so no matter the roll, the success never gets any better). A quickie example:
Say you say a dagger has a difficulty of 4 to craft, and it takes 3 steps to make the thing "expert." The "forge" result comes out as 10 above the needed (12/18 + 4,) resulting in 2 steps... so not quite expert, but better than average. This probably means it was made faster, but no real game (mechanical) advantage otherwise.
Same thing, only the result is a failure, but not by much, at -4 under the needed... so, the CK rules the dagger is made, but its poor quality, resulting in it weighing more, and being clumsy, or dull, resulting in a EV increase of .2 and dealing -1 damage than normal... but it was made nonetheless.
Other abilities could have similar things attached to them, such as hiding... perhaps by exceeding the difficulty by X you're unaffected by something like the scent (or heightened smell) ability, or some other "bonus" the limits of which are only governed by the ends of a CKs imagination... and all of which should not be fully detailed as it would be impossible, and should be situational, anyway.
Say you say a dagger has a difficulty of 4 to craft, and it takes 3 steps to make the thing "expert." The "forge" result comes out as 10 above the needed (12/18 + 4,) resulting in 2 steps... so not quite expert, but better than average. This probably means it was made faster, but no real game (mechanical) advantage otherwise.
Same thing, only the result is a failure, but not by much, at -4 under the needed... so, the CK rules the dagger is made, but its poor quality, resulting in it weighing more, and being clumsy, or dull, resulting in a EV increase of .2 and dealing -1 damage than normal... but it was made nonetheless.
Other abilities could have similar things attached to them, such as hiding... perhaps by exceeding the difficulty by X you're unaffected by something like the scent (or heightened smell) ability, or some other "bonus" the limits of which are only governed by the ends of a CKs imagination... and all of which should not be fully detailed as it would be impossible, and should be situational, anyway.
serleran wrote:
Other abilities could have similar things attached to them, such as hiding... perhaps by exceeding the difficulty by X you're unaffected by something like the scent (or heightened smell) ability, or some other "bonus" the limits of which are only governed by the ends of a CKs imagination... and all of which should not be fully detailed as it would be impossible, and should be situational, anyway.
I like it. I'm thinking that if the notion of "spin" being ported over to "Edge" would do the trick. In FATE 3.0, if a "defender" wins a contest by 1, they gain what is called spin and are able to place an aspect to be tagged on the current situation.
It doesn't mesh exactly but I'm thinking that with a little work it could be made to fit.
Okay, thresholds:
Beat a challenge by 10, the player is able to slap a "fragile" aspect onto someone, something or the scene as is appropriate.
Beat a challenge by 15, the player is able to slap a "sticky" aspect onto someone, something or the scene as is appropriate.
What's the difference? A fragile aspect goes away the first time it is invoked for the +2 bonus. A sticky asepect stays around till the CK says it's gone.
Next up: Crits.
Beat a challenge by 10, the player is able to slap a "fragile" aspect onto someone, something or the scene as is appropriate.
Beat a challenge by 15, the player is able to slap a "sticky" aspect onto someone, something or the scene as is appropriate.
What's the difference? A fragile aspect goes away the first time it is invoked for the +2 bonus. A sticky asepect stays around till the CK says it's gone.
Next up: Crits.