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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:06 pm

Messed up but true. I have seen that myself. I've seen parents that allowed Marvel Superheroes, Gamma World and others be played but they hated D&D. The same went for Nintendo RPG's in the day. There was a kid in High School that loved the Swords and Serpents game and we tried to get him into D&D since they were so similar but D&D was evil where S&S was just a game.

Go figure.
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Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:32 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
Messed up but true. I have seen that myself. I've seen parents that allowed Marvel Superheroes, Gamma World and others be played but they hated D&D. The same went for Nintendo RPG's in the day. There was a kid in High School that loved the Swords and Serpents game and we tried to get him into D&D since they were so similar but D&D was evil where S&S was just a game.

Go figure.

Yeah, the mother of a friend of mine was the exact same way. To her credit she never denied him the right to play D&D as she just gave him anti-D&D literature (also to her credit: not the Chick tract) and discouraged him from playing it. She was totally fine with him playing Star Wars d6 so that's what I played with him most of the time. It worked out fine anyway since he was a mega Star Wars NUT!!!! I grew up with Star Wars and loved it especially as a child (I still do, but not in the same way), but I probably wouldn't have played the RPG had it not been for my friend so I benefited from the whole scenario as well. To me D&D had an appeal because I always really dug Robin Hood and the King Arthur stories. I thought of it as "honorable knights on a quest." I wasn't interested in drawing magic circles, calling demons and "delving into the dark side of the soul." I saved that for playing Stormbringer years later. I'm kind of miffed at the whole anti-Harry Potter crowd as well since it would just be easier for them to tell their children that there are no such things as spells and potions. When working at a video game store I met one parent who just pissed me off to the extreme. EVERY GAME that she picked up she asked me, "Does this game have witchcraft in it?" When her kids were demoing the LOTR Two Towers game and she saw Elrond in the opening she kept asking, "Is he commanding them in some way?" As if he were a demon telling his minions to fight. I remember telling her, "Well it's Lord of the Rings so if you'd let your kids watch that movie then it's okay to let them play the game." To which she responded, "Do I look like I've watched Lord of the Rings?" "You don't seem like a fan, but it's just one of those things that everyone has probably seen at least once like Star Wars. I don't like Titanic, but I've seen it." So she finally settled on Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. She brought the game back a few days later when she realized that Link was "calling forth" the powers of the wind or something along those lines. In my few years in retail I think that I've only once ever was outwardly rude to a customer and unfortunately she wasn't the one.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:42 pm

My goodness. That is just...well...messed up. And yeah the King Arthur/Robin Hood thing is what attracted me to D&D as well. I've always been an adventure nut and D&D fit what I was looking for. Prior to that several of us kids played a really Watered down version of D&D (Though we didn't know that) to capture what we wanted. It was that awkward pahse where your abandoning the toys for other things but don't know where to go from there.
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Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:56 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
My goodness. That is just...well...messed up. And yeah the King Arthur/Robin Hood thing is what attracted me to D&D as well. I've always been an adventure nut and D&D fit what I was looking for. Prior to that several of us kids played a really Watered down version of D&D (Though we didn't know that) to capture what we wanted. It was that awkward pahse where your abandoning the toys for other things but don't know where to go from there.

Actually my first "real" RPG was one that a friend and I created. I had just moved back to Georgia from Fort Lauderdale and it had been about two years since I had played the aforementioned game of "D&D." I asked my friend, "Hey have you ever played Dungeons & Dragons before?" He basically said that he hadn't but always thought that it sounded like fun. Well we were under the age of sixteen and about thirty miles from the nearest place to buy any D&D stuff so we just made our own. We called it Sword of Fire. It sounded appropriately grand and fantastic at the time. I actually still have it and found it a few months ago. Good for a laugh. A couple of months later I managed to talk my mom into picking up the 2nd Edition DMG on her way home from work. I was all set to play a Friday night game of D&D with my friends. Yeah...then I read the intro which stated, "Everything in this book is based on the assumption that you own and are familiar with the Player's Handbook."

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:55 pm

I was usually able to read Warhammer material around my grandparents quite easily (my parents never thought roleplaying was bad and often bought me rpg material), as long as there was no dreaded D&D logo about and if you are familiar with Warhammer you know that it is decadent, dismal and filled with daemons, Chaos, madness, disease, violence and lurid imagery. I agree with the poster who said it is all in the brand image.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:57 pm

LOL!

My intro to D&D was in phases. I played 2e with a friend when I was 15 or so and enjoyed it. I kid I rode the bus with sold me his B/X stuff. (Mentzer) cheap and my brother and I played it alot. I got my own 2e stuff shortly thereafter and had a blast. Though I loved B/X better at the time.

Very fun days indeed.
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Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:08 pm

After we had been playing a few years and switched from B/X to AD&D, I was asked by my dad about the game, because 1) I was the older of two boys and 2) I was the DM. He said he had heard some bad things about the game but did not want to assume anything. He wanted to get some straight answers from us.

He asked about the demons and stuff and I went through how they are evil in the game and are rarely seen. When they are, they are enemies -- as I did not allow evil PC's in my campaigns.

Then he asked if I had achieved (ahem) any conquests with the opposite gender in the game. I said, "Dad, I'm the DM -- I don't get anything."
In short, I answered his questions honestly and he was fine from then on. I told him it was no different from my brother and I playing Top Secret, Marvel Super Heroes, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, James Bond, or Twilight: 2000 -- except for the system rules and the genre. That was the end of that and I was never questioned by my parents again -- except in the "So, what's happening in your D&D Game?" kind of way.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:25 pm

Zudrak wrote:
Then he asked if I had achieved (ahem) any conquests with the opposite gender in the game. I said, "Dad, I'm the DM -- I don't get anything."

That's funny how the anti-D&D crowd saw that. You could be conquesting your entire class of females in real life and no one batted an eye until you did it in the game.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:28 pm

Heck, I've taken flack for playing "Christian RPGs," too, like DragonRaid. Maybe its because I like to use elements of real-world occult lore?

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:30 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
That's funny how the anti-D&D crowd saw that. You could be conquesting your entire class of females in real life and no one batted an eye until you did it in the game.

Every group had one of those guys though. That's what made that one guy in the Dead alewives skit funny. When I ran my first game of C&C I got my brother-in-law who apparently used to play a lot in high school to play. He was that guy. "Seriously, you want to do what to the kobold?"

Nelzie · Post by **Nelzie** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:40 pm

Orpheus wrote:
Every group had one of those guys though. That's what made that one guy in the Dead alewives skit funny. When I ran my first game of C&C I got my brother-in-law who apparently used to play a lot in high school to play. He was that guy. "Seriously, you want to do what to the kobold?"

I may joke around about being "that guy" in game from time to time, but really doing that sort of thing and going anywhere near detail is just plain wrong, wrong and wrong.
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pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:17 pm

Nelzie wrote:
I may joke around about being "that guy" in game from time to time, but really doing that sort of thing and going anywhere near detail is just plain wrong, wrong and wrong.

Those guys always have creeped me out. While there is usually a bit of carousing happening in the background, in my games it stays in the background.

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:19 pm

serleran wrote:
Heck, I've taken flack for playing "Christian RPGs," too, like DragonRaid. Maybe its because I like to use elements of real-world occult lore?

Wow! I have never heard of that game until just now so I had to Google it. Wow. Sure, why not? As for using real-world occult elements: I can't lie; seeing a shocked look on someone's face is just plain fun. That's why I like to buy CD's in pairs. "Let me just ring you up here. Let's see, you got the John Hiatt and the...uh...Helloween."

Alto Banor · Post by **Alto Banor** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:22 am

My experience started in 1979 when a student from my drafting class asked if I wanted to come over on Friday and play D&D. He was a strange one but I tried to look past that and agreed. It was late when I headed over to the game and it was on the "not so good part of town." I chickened out at the last moment and didn't even ring the doorbell!!

Less than a year later, my parents sent me down to Florida to live with my aunt and uncle until they sold our house in Kansas. I was a JR in high school and I knew no one. Fortunately, I liked to bowl and joined a Sat. bowling league. One of my teammates asked me if I ever heard of D&D and offered to pick me up and drive me to the game. I did and come to find out, the bowling alley mechanic was the DM and the game was about 10 blocks from my aunts house. 27 years later, some of the players I gamed with are still playing in our game, including the DM who is still running our games.

My parents were open minded about the game. When I started hosting them, they got to know everyone pretty well. My father once told me that my gaming friends were some of best people he had ever met.

Alto
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csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:02 am

In 1980 I was introduced to AD&D by a friend in junior high school and immediately was hooked. Until then I had very little exposure to fantasy (I think the extent of my fantasy reading was The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe). I started running a game with my little brother using no rules and whatever dice I could find as soon as I got home from my first game!

My mom, after seeing Mazes & Monsters, tried to counsel me and gauge my attachment to the game/my character. The kid across the street, whom I had introduced to D&D, got A LOT of flack from his mom.

I remember her driving by us as we played in the street (I'm from NYC... it's what kids do) and screaming at us to "stop playing that game, you mo-mos." That was right after some 60 Minutes expose on the dangers of D&D so, between that and M&M, parents were rightfully freaked out.

Nowadays I waste way too much time doing "geek" prep-work while at work and hide my hobby from most people. Those who know me well know what I do with much of my free time and I have no problem with their questions about RPGs.

The only embarrassing times in my adult life had to do with my getting RPG books for Christmas while my wife's family looked on, giving me looks as if I were the biggest dork on the planet. At this point though, it's a point of pride to open my "geek stuff" in front of the in-laws and extended family.

Snaebjorn · Post by **Snaebjorn** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:11 pm

Chello!

lol...my mom burned my books too...took to that quck exorcist Bob Larson even for an exorcism. Howver, whenver I could say (with a straight face), "the Blood of Jesus saves me," he said there were no demons in me....
I had to leave the house at 3 in the morning when I was 12-13 and ride my bicycle down to Kroger's grocery store and buy new PHBs and DMGs.

Is it any wonder that I became Catholic as well?
Tony

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:17 pm

Snaebjorn wrote:
Chello!

lol...my mom burned my books too...took to that quck exorcist Bob Larson even for an exorcism. Howver, whenver I could say (with a straight face), "the Blood of Jesus saves me," he said there were no demons in me....
I had to leave the house at 3 in the morning when I was 12-13 and ride my bicycle down to Kroger's grocery store and buy new PHBs and DMGs.

Is it any wonder that I became Catholic as well?
Tony

I am absolutely shocked!!! Just shocked!!! They sold D&D material at Kroger?

Snaebjorn · Post by **Snaebjorn** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:23 pm

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:33 pm

All I can say: I love my fiancee's family. They are into fantasy. They have and play Dark Tower, other TSR board games, are willing to give Warhammer Quest a go (her sister is hooked, by the way, playing a Trollslayer) and others, even the horror game Atmosfear on occasion. They don't care when I hand over my birthday/Christmas list (same thing as my birthday is only two weeks before) and its 99% RPG; in fact, they go out of their way to pick up the rare, and hard-to-get stuff... like giving me a OCE last year (not that its rare, or hard-to-get, per se, but it can be expensive, and that makes it rare and hard-to-get for me) signed by Gary Gygax himself at LGGC when my fiancee and I attended.

Sometimes, despite the years of "abuse" one wins out in the end. I got lucky.

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:11 pm

Orpheus wrote:
Wow! I have never heard of that game until just now so I had to Google it. Wow. Sure, why not? As for using real-world occult elements: I can't lie; seeing a shocked look on someone's face is just plain fun. That's why I like to buy CD's in pairs. "Let me just ring you up here. Let's see, you got the John Hiatt and the...uh...Helloween."

That reminded me of Empire Records:

Quote:
Lucas: Warren, look what you took: rap, metal, rap, metal, Whitney Houston?

Warren: It's for my girl-friend.

Lucas: Sure it is. Warren, you should listen to music to diminish your criminal impulses, not magnify them .....maybe some jazz or some classical?

Warren: Maybe you bite me.

Getting back OT, I think you're going to find, no matter the religion, there are those that are going to be put off by RPG's, mostly D&D. There were kids that stopped playing when I attended the Catholic grade school because of their parents. D&D didn't have any impact on my conversion, but it is an obstacle in the path of the legalists of any religious persuasion.
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"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:36 pm

serleran wrote:
All I can say: I love my fiancee's family. They are into fantasy. They have and play Dark Tower, other TSR board games, are willing to give Warhammer Quest a go (her sister is hooked, by the way, playing a Trollslayer) and others, even the horror game Atmosfear on occasion. They don't care when I hand over my birthday/Christmas list (same thing as my birthday is only two weeks before) and its 99% RPG; in fact, they go out of their way to pick up the rare, and hard-to-get stuff... like giving me a OCE last year (not that its rare, or hard-to-get, per se, but it can be expensive, and that makes it rare and hard-to-get for me) signed by Gary Gygax himself at LGGC when my fiancee and I attended.

Sometimes, despite the years of "abuse" one wins out in the end. I got lucky.

Heh. My latest "campaign" that I started consists of me as CK with my mom-in-law and my son as PC's. I've lucked out in the in-law department. Well, 2 out of 3 (mom- and brother-in-law). Even my wife doesn't talk to her father.

Getting off that topic, the larger campaign featuring my wife is on hold following her bowing out (complications from cancer). I am hoping that the rest of the group can still get together. It's a nice excuse for them to visit with my wife when they come over. They game with me, check on her during breaks, and we all eat meals together. After a few medical opinions and possibly a surgery, we should be right as rain again.
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"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:43 pm

Zudrak wrote:
Getting back OT, I think you're going to find, no matter the religion, there are those that are going to be put off by RPG's, mostly D&D. There were kids that stopped playing when I attended the Catholic grade school because of their parents. D&D didn't have any impact on my conversion, but it is an obstacle in the path of the legalists of any religious persuasion.

Oh no doubt. I didn't mean to imply that Protestants in general were the only ones in the anti-D&D crowd or that my own personal "D&D experience" was what explicitly brought about my conversion. It was just that in a quest for understanding what the Protestants I knew were railing against I found out that much of what I was told about Catholicism wasn't fact. It just so happened that I agreed with the Catholicism. Honestly, a lot of the anti-D&D crowds or perception of oppressive Christians can be broken down along geographical lines: More Catholics live up North and more Protestants live down South. When one of 'em makes a ruckus everyone takes notice and sees who's doing it. When one wants to "rebel" yet stay within the confines of Christianity they'll go elsewhere within the family. I accept Catholicism, but I also believe in C.S. Lewis' points in Mere Christianity: "We are family...."

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:45 pm

Zudrak wrote:
After a few medical opinions and possibly a surgery, we should be right as rain again.

Good to hear. You have my prayers.

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:56 pm

Orpheus wrote:
I accept Catholicism, but I also believe in C.S. Lewis' points in Mere Christianity: "We are family...."

If you mean the point of saying that "no matter the dressing, that the lettuce base makes the salad" applies as long as the biblical Jesus is the base of faith, then I agree with you. I loved that analogy in that book.

EDIT: I hope I worded my thoughts in a comprehensive manner.
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"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:57 pm

Orpheus wrote:
Good to hear. You have my prayers.

Much appreciated!
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AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:08 pm

*snorts* As I mentioned in my previous posting, one doesnt have to be of a religious bent to be absurd about gaming, or any other hobby.

Feel free to hunt down some of mine, and C&C's for that matter, more hysterical critics for clear examples.
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Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:26 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
*snorts* As I mentioned in my previous posting, one doesnt have to be of a religious bent to be absurd about gaming, or any other hobby.

Feel free to hunt down some of mine, and C&C's for that matter, more hysterical critics for clear examples.

Finding said critics is as easy as G-O-O-G-L-E. Hence, your signature.

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AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:33 pm

Quote:
Getting off that topic, the larger campaign featuring my wife is on hold following her bowing out (complications from cancer). I am hoping that the rest of the group can still get together. It's a nice excuse for them to visit with my wife when they come over. They game with me, check on her during breaks, and we all eat meals together. After a few medical opinions and possibly a surgery, we should be right as rain again.

Good luck & God bless. My dad just came through the same woods & is doing great. Hope the same for you!
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:12 pm

The only real faith conversion I did was becoming a post-evangelical after being a charismatic. And D&D had nothing to do with that.
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Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:18 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
The only real faith conversion I did was becoming a post-evangelical after being a charismatic. And D&D had nothing to do with that.

D&D wasn't directly responsible for my conversion either, but the lies I heard about it made me go, "what else are these people lying about?" Of course, it would be freaking hilarious to say, "I came to Christ through an 8th level Lawful Good Paladin...and Gary Gygax."