Troll Lord Games

So, the leatherbound and foil-stamped C&C books look very sweet, if they are a bit expensive, but you know what would *really* kick ass?

A print run of C&C that was completely and utterly evocative of 1st Edition AD&D. Use the same fonts and layouts as 1st ed, get similar cover and interior art, give us a matte cover with an orange spine...go ALL THE FRAK OUT.

C&C already has made its name from evoking "the old days" and playing to the nostalgia factor. Crank that up to 11. Can you imagine the geek-gasm from people walking into their FLGS and seeing a book on the shelves that looks like first edition AD&D?

Sure, you'd have to file off the serial numbers a bit. Keep the C&C logo on the front cover as-is (albeit perhaps in white), rather than reproducing the font from the old AD&D logo. Make the cover art evocative of, say, the old Easley wizard cover art (only because everyone's already parodied the "thief stealing the gem" cover art) but don't make it 100% identical. I'm absolutely POSITIVE Peter could produce something ideal for it...but keep it in blues and whites so that out of the corner of your eye, you go, "Holy crap, did I just see a reprint of AD&D!?"

Then you turn to look full-on and it's C&C. And you go..."Wow...okay, sold."

Inside, of course, make it look as much like 1E as possible. All the fonts, layouts, cartoony art stylings...the works.

The best part? A special edition like this would probably cost about the same as the regular edition.

Who's with me? I know the Trolls listen to their fans, so let's give them an outcry and let 'em know this would sell!

I think this is a damn good idea personally, but with some many versions of the C&CPHB flaoting around in the past 2 years, would such a project really be viable? I'm all for special editions of this game, but I don;t see that happening.

You know, honestly I wonder if TLG would even want such a thing. A special book like you mention goes a long way to rub out product identity. I wonder if that is a consideration too.

Regardless, I'd pick up a copy of a book like this!

...........................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Omote wrote:
I think this is a damn good idea personally, but with some many versions of the C&CPHB flaoting around in the past 2 years, would such a project really be viable? I'm all for special editions of this game, but I don;t see that happening.

You know, honestly I wonder if TLG would even want such a thing. A special book like you mention goes a long way to rub out product identity. I wonder if that is a consideration too.

Regardless, I'd pick up a copy of a book like this!

...........................................Omote

FPQ

Well, I've heard a rumor that the second printing is almost gone and they'll be looking to do a third printing soon. Perhaps they could do a single print run of this version (really making it a collector's edition) then back to the normal look?

Hell, you could even save the product identity by simply putting "Special Edition" in small letters underneath the C&C logo (which you'll note I said should remain the same, even though the cover design is evocative of first edition).

I think it could work. And sell like hot cakes. Look at Hackmaster. It all-but-copied the cover designs for the PHB and DMG from AD&D, and it didn't lose out on product identity for it. That's also why I said they should evoke the second covers; nobody's done that, yet.

I think that something like that, personally, would be awesome! The late printing 1st edition and the 2nd edition books before they went to the black covers say "Classic Fantasy RPG" to me. Yes, I am partial to Easley's stuff and I like the matte finish on the books much better. The only problem:

Omote wrote:
You know, honestly I wonder if TLG would even want such a thing. A special book like you mention goes a long way to rub out product identity. I wonder if that is a consideration too.

Can you say Zune?
I would buy a copy and if they did a limited run with pre-orders to make it economical then I'd be for it.

A limited run sounds like a good idea, perhaps with the number of that print on the inside cover, as part of the standard ISBN area, only, its got an extra digit or three, and that's the one that tells you which one you've got.

Actually, on second thought, it might not be possible, as that sort of thing is "trade dress" or whatever. I dunno. Just what I heard.

The Grey Elf wrote:
I'm absolutely POSITIVE Peter could produce something ideal for it...but keep it in blues and whites so that out of the corner of your eye, you go, "Holy crap, did I just see a reprint of AD&D!?"

*smiles* Im sure Pete could too, however Pete also avoids trying to duplicate the work or style of others like black death. Otherwise I'd have taken up a very lucrative career in the world of art forgery..
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

serleran wrote:
Actually, on second thought, it might not be possible, as that sort of thing is "trade dress" or whatever. I dunno. Just what I heard.

Not if done properly. Again, I point to Hackmaster, Dungeons and Zombies, and a slew of other fantasy games that have parodied AD&D. This is exactly why the "serial" numbers would have to be filed off.

The Grey Elf wrote:
Not if done properly. Again, I point to Hackmaster, Dungeons and Zombies, and a slew of other fantasy games that have parodied AD&D. This is exactly why the "serial" numbers would have to be filed off.

Hackmaster has a liscence though to do parodies. And note the word 'parody'.

Not to mention, doing a limited run of anything costs more simply because its cheaper to do larger runs than smaller runs. Then there is cost of art and whatnot thats going to run the cost up. ^_~`
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

I think that it could be done without copyright infringement, and I would buy it.

gideon_thorne wrote:
Hackmaster has a liscence though to do parodies. And note the word 'parody'.

Not to mention, doing a limited run of anything costs more simply because its cheaper to do larger runs than smaller runs. Then there is cost of art and whatnot thats going to run the cost up. ^_~`

*sigh*

Eden Studios is not licensed, and Dungeons and Zombies sports a cover that is a blatant reference to first edition AD&D.

As long as it's not an exact duplicate of the AD&D first edition books, it is absolutely not infringement. Once again, I'm talking about something evocative of the original...a cover that pays clear homage without being the same. People have been doing this in art, literature, and games forever.

Sure, if you just reprinted the Easley cover, it would be infringement. Hence why I never said they should simply rip off the original book.

gideon_thorne wrote:
Hackmaster has a liscence though to do parodies. And note the word 'parody'.

Not to mention, doing a limited run of anything costs more simply because its cheaper to do larger runs than smaller runs. Then there is cost of art and whatnot thats going to run the cost up. ^_~`

It's an idea worth considering, and judging by all the others that have done similar products without legal consequence, I suspect it's perfectly legal. Cost is the real concern, if any.

Interesting idea. I'd buy one for sure!
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

I think we should keep this up top, so the Trolls see it and say, "Hey, that's a damned fine idea. Let's give it a shot!"

Its likely the Trolls have already spotted it... but they do not always respond to every thread. I saw Steve hunting about these boards yesterday. He even posted a few times.

Another idea that would be cool IMHO, is a special edition that combines the PHB and Monsters and Treasures into one book. I would be all over this one in a minute, especially if it was a limited and numbered run.

Yeah, I think that would be cool too. The Trolls knows about the RC like combo book, as it's been talked about for 2+ years now. I just don;t think it's going to happen though.

One of the posters around here, or on the old boards actually made his own PHB+M&T book. He had them rebound into a single book. Looked pretty cool.

........................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Ghost_Face wrote:
Another idea that would be cool IMHO, is a special edition that combines the PHB and Monsters and Treasures into one book. I would be all over this one in a minute, especially if it was a limited and numbered run.

See, that's something I'd like to see. Do a "Deluxe C&C" book, incorporating the PHB, M&T and CJG into one big book, and then use the AD&D "look" as Jason says. It could be a really fun little book.

I would buy this, but only if the trolls went REALLY old school! By that, I mean I want Jeff Dee, Roslof, and Bill Willingham interior art, and an Erol Otus cover. Even if its just a few scattered pieces. Keep Peter around too, his stuff is great. But if you are going to get all old school, you might as well roll around in it.

Now, if you could get Dave Trampier to contribute, my head would explode and I wouldn't be able to buy it. So keep that in mind.

Tom

I'd also pay cash money for a digest sized copy of the PH. I remember as a kid being disappointed that the players handbook wasn't actually a "handbook." I'm probably the only one who feels this way, but even so...

Tom

BluSponge wrote:
I'd also pay cash money for a digest sized copy of the PH. I remember as a kid being disappointed that the players handbook wasn't actually a "handbook." I'm probably the only one who feels this way, but even so...

Tom

Coming from the Boy Scout Handbook, I kind of felt the same way at first.

I'm telling you, the "emulating 1e AD&D" version would be a huge hit. I'd totally own it, that's for sure!

The only thing FOR SURE I hope C&C emulates from 1E is the CKG!

............................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society