Troll Lord Games

This is a good place to discuss the funny rule quirks, etc that occur in any C&C products.

1) In C&C you don't want to fall off of anything: a fall of 30 feet is 1d6 + 2d6 + 3d6 points of damage.

So if you ever fall off a ladder, you'll be breaking the sound barrior by the time you hit the ground...

True, you do not want to fall... but, what's even funnier is if you jump off, because you don't suffer damage from jumps.

3) ...in C&C, your party can rob a bank of 500,000 gold and go up 10 levels in x.p.

"Screw the combat, I'm going for the tapestries..."

slimykuotoan wrote:
3) ...in C&C, your party can rob a bank of 500,000 gold and go up 10 levels in x.p.

"Screw the combat, I'm going for the tapestries..."

Part of the reason why in my at home game I don't award xp's as per the book.

Of course a bank with half a million in gold should have some awesome protections and a good guard force and guardian creatures. So you might actually end up with a half million xp's and then some. Most likely you'll end up dead.

The "Eyes of Doom" is the best magic item evar!!!

Cheers,

J.

Treebore wrote:
Part of the reason why in my at home game I don't award xp's as per the book.

Of course a bank with half a million in gold should have some awesome protections and a good guard force and guardian creatures. So you might actually end up with a half million xp's and then some. Most likely you'll end up dead.

If the adventure's goal is getting treasure (e.g. robbing a bank), then XP for GP makes an excellent "story award."

slimykuotoan wrote:
3) ...in C&C, your party can rob a bank of 500,000 gold and go up 10 levels in x.p.

"Screw the combat, I'm going for the tapestries..."

This becomes quite a bit more interesting if you go with the option presented way back in the day as "Orgies Inc." You can read about it here: http://www.thedelversdungeon.com/forums ... ?p=381#381

Okay, I'll bite.

The 1st level cleric with Dex Prime, but a Dex of only 10 has a better chance of sneaking by kobold than the 3rd level ranger with a 16 Dex if the ranger does not have Dex prime [he chose Wisdom instead, & wasn't human]
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for the munchkins out there. never play a demi-human ranger. you need the 3 primes to be effective in this class

Cheers,

J.

Sorry, but I'm calling BS. I play a half-orc ranger, and the character rocks.

maybe so, but not all of the class abilities will be effective if you don't have 3 primes.

you can roleplay him however you want - not commenting on roleplayability I did use the term munchkin!!

Cheers,

J.

oh, here's another one that I 'love'
clerics and druids are the best classes in C&C to detect surprise.

Cheers,

J.

Quote:
clerics and druids are the best classes in C&C to detect surprise.

Maybe their deity is whispering in their ear?

Of course, not all the time - that would be distracting, and they'd never win a surprise check.

its a 50-50 chance that a 1st level mage with no spells memorized will get killed if facing 2 house cats in combat
Cheers,

J.

jman5000 wrote:
its a 50-50 chance that a 1st level mage with no spells memorized will get killed if facing 2 house cats in combat
Cheers,

J.

Dont laugh, I got killed by a house cat.

Breakdaddy wrote:
Dont laugh, I got killed by a house cat.

How'd that happen?

slimykuotoan wrote:
How'd that happen?

And more importantly, how are you typing from beyond the grave?!?

slimykuotoan wrote:
How'd that happen?

Level 1 Fighter, Classic D&D, with about 6 HP as I recall

1 rabid standard feline

Several poor rolls later and Im deed. Damn my shoddy gold roll that I only wore leather armor, AC7

Tank wrote:
And more importantly, how are you typing from beyond the grave?!?

HA you fool!!!!!

serleran wrote:
Sorry, but I'm calling BS. I play a half-orc ranger, and the character rocks.

Yes, at killing things, all rangers rock. There is something you had to give up though-- either your wildnerness knowledge/delay poison or your stealth & climbing abilities. Sure you have a 15% chance of success, maybe more if the CK actually doesn't pile on CL modifiers, which in my experience they do, often in excess of your character level.

I have actually seen that most CKs say that CL 1-3 is an easy task. So 19-22 to succeed on a non-prime class skill is supposed to be easy? I guess if you get to place your die on the table and choose the result instead of rolling it that works. Otherwise you may as well not even have those abilities.

IMO, Average CL should be 0, with Easy tasks being actually... easier than the base difficulty of 18, with negative numbers for CLs. Even then, a -5CL climb check for a WIS based ranger would be TN 13-- still harder than if it were prime.

What I do to get around all this problems, however is simple: All class and racial abilities are prime, whether the stat is or not. Primes still matter for other things-- ability checks, saves, secondary skills, etc. No matter what you pick as your primes, your character will still have good success odds and be competent at his class and racial abilities. This allows characters choose primes based on character concept rather than ensuring their character is effective at what it is supposed to do.

Thus, using this method, you could play a Half-Orc Ranger with STR and CON as primes, and still be competent at your class abilities that rely on Dex and Wis.
_________________
Basic Action Games http://www.bashrpg.com

Check us out for free demos and downloads or visit us onFacebook.

BASH MAN wrote:
What I do to get around all this problems, however is simple: All class and racial abilities are prime, whether the stat is or not. Primes still matter for other things-- ability checks, saves, secondary skills, etc. No matter what you pick as your primes, your character will still have good success odds and be competent at his class and racial abilities.

I do the same, but just assumed it was the case anyway.

No, Bash Man, my half-orc rocks... at everything he does, which is sneak, hide, kill, climb, delay poisons, track, and everything else. See, seems most people forget that ability checks only apply in certain circumstances (not every action you could conceivably perform), so, if you're a smart player, you'll get yourself into those situations where checks aren't required... or, they are so simple to succeed at that a roll is next to laughable. Now, where he does have problems is in saves, but I've got a crapload of HP, so most of those are not a big deal... and, the guy does come close to death every session, so its not like he gets by unscathed... he just won't go down. Oh, and umm, I don't have Con as a Prime. There are better Primes to have than that, especially as a half-orc...

playing a half-orc ranger, with STR taking up 1 prime already, you'd be crazy to pick CON as your second prime. it will have to be either DEX or WIS to make the class worthwhile at all. (considering there isn't a single class skill requiring STR)

you might be lucky as a player and having a lenient GM, but your experiences do not generally hold true for the rest of the playing public (IMO). The way you play your game notwithstanding, a non-human ranger is at a disadvantage mechanically. (note the last word)

Cheers,

J.

If that's all you're playing for, yes... mechanically, all race/class combos are at a disadvantage, since none of them give you Prime in everything. However, some of them are much easier to bypass, even with what is stated in the rules... of which "not every action requires a check" is part, as well as ways, extrapolated from the text itself, to go alongside. I do not have a lenient CK (in fact, one might say he's far from it, seeing as we've had 1 healing potion in more than a year of playing, and he's not above killing off PCs, as we've had something like 4 deaths) but I do know how to abuse whatever is presented to me.

Sure, I have been lucky with my HD rolls (near max every level) but I also know when to retreat, and what not to fight.

[quote="serleran"]If that's all you're playing for, yes... mechanically, all race/class combos are at a disadvantage, [/quote]

Technically, that isn't true, Ranger is the only class in C&C that has 1 Attribute assigned as a mandatory prime yet there are no class skills which require that prime. All Ranger class skills require either DEX or WIS. If you look at every other class, you'll note that they all have at least 1 skill assigned to the class prime.

I believe that any other demi-human race with any other class is not really a problem at all because it doesn't suffer from this "oddity" of a class attribute not used in class skills yet having class skills requiring 2 other attributes.

I'm not complaining, I like the fact that each attribute has 2 classes to them, because I like the fact that there are no dump stats in C&C. It's only the Ranger which suffers from this mechanical quirk, hence the reason why I included it in this thread

Cheers,

J.

Perhaps Ranger's should have wisdom as their class prime?

Heh, well, I won't say the ranger class is funky... it is. But, I will defend it.

Personally, I think ranger makes more sense with Wisdom Prime, but I have a different tree-hugger hippie way of viewing the class.

slimykuotoan wrote:
Perhaps Ranger's should have wisdom as their class prime?

yes that makes the most logical sense (haha logic in a fantasy role playing game), as that fixes 2 "problems" in one fell swoop.

- the STR Ranger DEX/WIS issues and demi-human weakness

- that clerics/druids are the best at detecting surprise as their prime is WIS (when rangers/rogues should be)

however, I do like the fact that for every attribute, there are 2 classes that can be played. I don't have the phb in front of me right now, but wonder if the Bard would/could fit with a STR prime, or if that would cause the same quirk?

Cheers,

J.

jman5000 wrote:
I believe that any other demi-human race with any other class is not really a problem at all because it doesn't suffer from this "oddity" of a class attribute not used in class skills yet having class skills requiring 2 other attributes.

The assassin.

Yes, the class prime is dex, as well as a number of the skills but the assassin also has 4 different attributes represented by their skills. Thus a demi-human assassin would only have 2 of the 4 attributes covered by primes.

I don't think its a problem, nor do I find the ranger a problem though.

Its a matter of which direction they want to specialize. More sneaky, scouty type or the more woodsman sort. Either way they still get to add class level to all of the skills.

Thanks for the clarification - I had a feeling that I'd left one or 2 out... was at work and didn't have the books with me.

I don't mind the assassin or ranger as is either - just commenting on this thread titled "funny things about C&C"

Cheers,

J.