Handler (Variant Rogue)

[Dragonhelm]

I've given a shot at a handler class for C&C. Let me know what you think, or if anything should be changed.

I'm debating whether there should be a Dodge ability or not. *shrugs*
Handler
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Trampas Whiteman
---DragonHelm--->
Dragonlance Nexus

[Rigon]

Looks good, Trampas. I don't think you need to add a dodge ability, with the additional bonuses to saves and other abilities.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

[Tadhg]

I like it. Well done!
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

[Turanil]

Dragonhelm wrote:
I'm debating whether there should be a Dodge ability or not. *shrugs*
Handler

Dodge doesn't seem necessary. However, I have a problem with the Hide in Plain Sight ability: why do you use that term for a Wisdom bonus to Hide? Myself I would make it as the d20 ability:

(borrowed and adapted from the SRD)
Hide in Plain Sight

A handler can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of something to hide in or behind (deep shadow, trees, boulders, column, furnitures, etc.), a handler can disappear from view even while being observed.

Other suggestions:

1) Uncle's Luck could be at 12th level instead of 11th, as many classes do get their last ability at 12th level.

2) Adding Wisdom or Charisma modifier as a bonus to skill check is very d20 n flavor, not C&C (where modifiers are lesser and high stats more difficult to get). I would rather suggest a flat bonus (+2, or +1 at some level, and +2 later, etc.).

[rabindranath72]

Turanil wrote:
Dodge doesn't seem necessary. However, I have a problem with the Hide in Plain Sight ability: why do you use that term for a Wisdom bonus to Hide? Myself I would make it as the d20 ability:

(borrowed and adapted from the SRD)
Hide in Plain Sight

A handler can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of something to hide in or behind (deep shadow, trees, boulders, column, furnitures, etc.), a handler can disappear from view even while being observed.

Other suggestions:

1) Uncle's Luck could be at 12th level instead of 11th, as many classes do get their last ability at 12th level.

2) Adding Wisdom or Charisma modifier as a bonus to skill check is very d20 n flavor, not C&C (where modifiers are lesser and high stats more difficult to get). I would rather suggest a flat bonus (+2, or +1 at some level, and +2 later, etc.).

I put my comments on the Dragonlance boards, but Turanil has some good points here regarding the "coherence" with how the other C&C classes are designed. The fact is that these are not really other abilities, but modifiers on the core Rogue abilities.

Perhaps you could go the route of the Illusionist, i.e. activate a bonus on a successful ability check. So, if the Wisdom check succeeds, the Kender can add a bonus to the Hide check. This bonus would increase by level.

This way the class would work in a "proper" C&C way, and the bonus would not be fixed, but increasing.

[rabindranath72]

Just to better clarify what I meant, here follows Trampas' text, with my adjustments (I also modified the Legend Lore ability):

The handler has the standard rogue abilities, but does not gain Back Attack, Cant, or Sneak Attack. Instead, he gains the following new abilities, which work conditional on a successful ability check (like the Sharp Senses ability of Illusionists).

Kender Tales (Charisma): At 3rd level, the Handler gains the bard's Legend Lore ability, but at two levels lower. (So, a 3rd level Handler works like a 1st level Bard).

Light-Fingered (Wisdom): The handler may add +1 to Pick Pocket checks. The bonus increases at +2 at 4th, +3 at 7th, +4 at 10, +5 at 13th.

Five-Fingered Fighting: At 5th level, a kender can handle from an opponent during battle upon a successful melee attack roll.

Handler's Luck (Charisma): A handler may add +1 to any saving throw. The bonus increases at +2 at 4th, +3 at 7th, +4 at 10, +5 at 13th.

Hide in Plain Sight (Wisdom): may add +1 to Hide checks. The bonus increases at +2 at 4th, +3 at 7th, +4 at 10, +5 at 13th.

Uncle's Luck (Charisma): At 11th level, a handler gains the Embolden ability of Knights, but it applies only to all kender and half-kender within 30 feet.

Trampas' original approach works in principle like the Knights's Inspire ability, but there is a fundamental difference: Charisma is a Prime ability of Knights, and quite probably it will be the higher score of a character, therefore granting almost always a bonus.

But for the Kender handler, Dexterity is Prime, and Wisdom and Charisma will not necessarily have high scores; therefore the class abilities could be worth nothing.

[Dragonhelm]

I've revised it and added in suggestions. Let me know how this looks.
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Trampas Whiteman
---DragonHelm--->
Dragonlance Nexus

[Rigon]

Like I said over at the DL forums, if I was going in this direction, I would steal the hell out of this.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

[Dragonhelm]

Rigon wrote:
Like I said over at the DL forums, if I was going in this direction, I would steal the hell out of this.

R-

You just made my day.
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Trampas Whiteman
---DragonHelm--->
Dragonlance Nexus

[Rigon]

Dragonhelm wrote:
You just made my day.

You're welcomed!
R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind