Combat Dominance (Revised)

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:51 pm

Just looking for some feedback on this. With general dissatisfaction with the Fighter's ability, I've been meaning to do some a revision on this but hadn't had a real reason to till now. I finally have a player with a Fighter who has reached 4th level!

"Combat Dominance (Revised)

At 4th level, the fighter gains an extra attack when scoring a hit on an opponent with half the fighter's hit dice or less. The extra attack should be considered a 'follow-through' where the fighter is exploiting a weakness in an opponent. This extra attack may be directed to a different opponent as long as they are within reach and meet the hit die criteria. This ability improves as the fighter progresses in levels with an additional attack gained every four levels thereafter. Combat Dominance does not combine with the Extra Attack ability and cannot be applied to ranged weapons."

Now... is this too powerful? Obviously it's no longer restricted to the original 1 HD of type D6 or lower. I initially thought of restricting the extra attacks to the same opponent and might still go that route depending on the feedback I (hopefully) receive. Finally, I felt it important that any extra attacks be only permitted with the success of the initial hit.

One other thing I thought was to restrict the number of additional attacks by the fighter's Dex mod but decided against that.

I also thought about giving a Fighter his Int mod as a bonus to hit if the extra attacks were restricted to the same opponent.

Thoughts?

Moriarty the Red
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jamesmishler · Post by **jamesmishler** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:23 pm

I like it.

As you use the fighter's Hit Dice rather than Level, this limits the targets of Combat Dominance to those with five Hit Dice/Levels or less (which can be targeted by a fighter 10th level or greater). That keeps the ability limited to use against lesser opponents, which is still within the idea of the original power, but not as restricted.

You might want to expressly state that the original target and the secondary target ("other opponent") must both be of half the hit dice of the fighter or lower. Change: "This extra attack may be directed to a different opponent as long as they are within reach and meet the hit die criteria" to "Provided the target of the original attack meets the hit die criteria, this extra attack may be directed to a different opponent as long as they are within reach and also meet the hit die criteria."
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Jyrdan Fairblade · Post by **Jyrdan Fairblade** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:06 pm

Making it an ability that grows in power as the fighter levels is a good idea. It does add a bit extra oomph, but not outrageously so.

Allowing Intelligence to add to the to hit bonus for the extra attacks is interesting, but could create problems. I get the idea that a smarter fighter is better at sizing up opponents and making the most of a situation. But it could be argued that a more dextrous fighter is faster at getting in extra attacks, or that a wiser fighter knows when to press the attack and when to withdraw, or that a hardier fighter has the constitution to be just as able to swing a blade just as well later in the fight as earlier.

Emryys · Post by **Emryys** » Thu May 17, 2007 7:08 pm

Jyrdan Fairblade wrote:
I get the idea that a smarter fighter is better at sizing up opponents and making the most of a situation. But it could be argued that a more dextrous fighter is faster at getting in extra attacks, or that a wiser fighter knows when to press the attack and when to withdraw, or that a hardier fighter has the constitution to be just as able to swing a blade just as well later in the fight as earlier.

And a more charismatic fighter is better at getting them to stand still...
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sat May 19, 2007 2:33 am

Thanks very much for the feedback! I've decided to re-word the description as suggested by James and ended it has now been 'green-flagged' for my campaign. The players also liked the change very much.

Thanks again!

Moriarty the Red
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BASH MAN · Post by **BASH MAN** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:02 am

No, this is not too powerful at all. A fighter facing foes half his hit dice-- these things are just speed-bumps anyway. As I see it, it allows the game to continue faster, as you can mop up those minions sooner this way.

Also, compared to Combat Marauder [the thing that ranger's do] this is still not all that powerful. +1 Dmg per level against like.... 75% of all the enemies you'll ever face? Give me a break. At 7th level you could be punching orcs and killing them every time.

Hmmm.. Now that might be a fun multiclass. Ranger/Monk.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:42 am

BASH MAN wrote:
Hmmm.. Now that might be a fun multiclass. Ranger/Monk.

That just *screams* sickness! I may have to try that next time I play a character. My most recent character I played was a multiclassed Monk/Assassin -- or as I like to think of him... my Ninja!

Thanks for the feedback!

M
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Sun May 20, 2007 11:51 am

moriarty777 wrote

Quote:
Combat Dominance (Revised)

At 4th level, the fighter gains an extra attack when scoring a hit on an opponent with half the fighter's hit dice or less. The extra attack should be considered a 'follow-through' where the fighter is exploiting a weakness in an opponent. This extra attack may be directed to a different opponent as long as they are within reach and meet the hit die criteria. This ability improves as the fighter progresses in levels with an additional attack gained every four levels thereafter. Combat Dominance does not combine with the Extra Attack ability and cannot be applied to ranged weapons."

I like it just like that (do not factor anthing in for dex or int, keep it simple ).
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:45 pm

So, the fighter has to hit first, before the extra attack kicks in? I don't like that, as it actually weakens the Combat Dominance ability. What if, for example, you're facing something like a hasteling (hehe), that has low HD, but a high AC? You'll have to be very high level to get those extra tries to kill it, whereas, under BtB rules, you get those extra tries just for it being a wuss.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:29 pm

serleran wrote:
So, the fighter has to hit first, before the extra attack kicks in? I don't like that, as it actually weakens the Combat Dominance ability. What if, for example, you're facing something like a hasteling (hehe), that has low HD, but a high AC? You'll have to be very high level to get those extra tries to kill it, whereas, under BtB rules, you get those extra tries just for it being a wuss.

A 'hasteling' ?? lol

Well, that is certainly an interesting point. The reason I put in that requirement (mechanically) was to provide at least another type of restriction since I was abolishing the 1 HD with d6 die-type or less restriction of the original ability. So instead of being able to use the ability on Goblins and Kobolds... and little else, you have a chance to also use the ability when fighting Orcs, Gnolls, and even Ungern as well as a whole whack-load more.

I admit it's a bit of a trade-off and a slight re-interpretation for what the ability was designed for (which I presume was to 'sweep' the wussy creatures). Then again, at fourth level, considering the AC of Kobolds and Goblins, at the very *least* a fighter will have a 50% chance to hit (assuming no Strength mod or other 'enhancements') which is not all that bad.

That being said, what would you (or anyone else) suggest regarding this? Would you drop the 'hit requirement' ... would you have it amended to automatically allow the extra attack *if* the target is 1d6 HD or less? Any other idea not being considered?

Here's a bit more food for thought. If the intent of the ability was to originally 'sweep' the wuss encounters, why wouldn't some of the other classes have access to this? I mean, I can see any class which has d10 for Hit dice or more being able to take these Kobolds and Goblins relatively easy beyond 4th level. Why should the fighter be the only one?

Moriarty the Red
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:03 pm

I understand the idea, in that one must hit the thing before getting to know its "weakness," which is slightly untrue, as the hit could have been more luck than precision, but that's a whole different type of argument...

As to what I'd do for the extra attacks: I'd give them automatically, at least against d4 and d6s; at higher levels, these would increase to d8, d10, and finally d12.

Oh, and the reason the fighter, alone, got the ability is two-fold... the source of inspiration gives it to fighters, only, and with it, the fighter is truly the master of combat. A ranger might be able to kill one creature at a time, but a fighter is able to take on hordes of creatures, especially if they are encountering the same thing.