Been thinking about adding them in.
Basically use one action point to roll and add the total of a die six to any d20 roll or to any damage roll. I am thinking maybe two action points per level or even 1d4 action points per level. As nuch as i do not like eberron I have to admit that the concept of action dice is good and would go a long ways towards making the hero truly heroic.
once or twice per level anyways.
Has anyone else tried this?
Action dice in C&C
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slimykuotoan
- Greater Lore Drake
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re
That sounds pretty cool; I remember the old Conan D&D modules having luck points, but I like the action point idea as well.
For crying out loud. Do your best with the rolls the dice have given you. This is what separates the men from the boys... -Kayolan
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SavageRobby
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I allow luck points, which kind of has the same effect as your method, after the dust settles.
They get 1 luck point per level plus 1. They can use them towards accomplishing their goal (such as recapturing the outlaw, Capt. john Slaughter) and they don't refresh until that goal is accomplished.
Have to admit it helps if your players remember you have a house rule for luck points though.
They can also permanently burn a luck point to have their character live where it otherwise would have died.
So I say use it. You can always take it away for the next campaign if you don't like its over all effect.
Edit: forgot to say what a luck point normally does.
It allows them to re-roll one of their rolls. Whether its a to hit roll, save, whatever they want to use it on. They just can't use it to have an opponent re-roll.
They get 1 luck point per level plus 1. They can use them towards accomplishing their goal (such as recapturing the outlaw, Capt. john Slaughter) and they don't refresh until that goal is accomplished.
Have to admit it helps if your players remember you have a house rule for luck points though.
They can also permanently burn a luck point to have their character live where it otherwise would have died.
So I say use it. You can always take it away for the next campaign if you don't like its over all effect.
Edit: forgot to say what a luck point normally does.
It allows them to re-roll one of their rolls. Whether its a to hit roll, save, whatever they want to use it on. They just can't use it to have an opponent re-roll.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
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DangerDwarf
- Maukling
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I've considered using something similar to the SW bennies but instead of giving 3 per session I was thinking of only award them for completing difficult tasks or such. Once earned, the player can hold on to the chip until he uses it.
Use would be similar to concobar's action die, with chips of various colors rpresenting a different action die type. White chips add 1d4 to a roll, red chips 1d6 etc.
Use would be similar to concobar's action die, with chips of various colors rpresenting a different action die type. White chips add 1d4 to a roll, red chips 1d6 etc.
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SavageRobby
- Hlobane Orc
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I wrote this up as my conversion of Bennies from SW to C&C:
Bennies
Every player typically starts each game session with 3 bennies: special tokens that signify a bit of good luck, fortune or fate. You may get awarded more bennies for great roleplaying, overcoming major obstacles, memorable acts or even for the occasional outlandish action.
Once spent, that benny is returned to the CK and may not be used again. A benny can be spent to achieve any one the following results:
Rerolls
You can use a benny to reroll nearly any type of roll. SIEGE rolls, saving throws, attacks and damage rolls are all eligible be rerolled by spending a benny. Bennies usually cannot be spent on tables or other rolls that arent SIEGE, attack or damage rolls. Using bennies to reroll other types of rolls is purely at the CKs discretion.
When you spend a benny to reroll, reroll whatever die or dice were required for the roll, but remember your original roll. You always take the best of your attempts you can never get a worse result by spending a benny to reroll. You can keep spending bennies and rerolling as long as you like (as long as you have bennies to spend).
Typically you use the same modifiers as the previous rolls. However, if you used a benny to gain a bonus to your roll (see below), that bonus is not retained when use a benny to reroll.
You can only choose to reroll dice that you rolled. You cannot reroll an opponents attack or damage, for example.
Bonuses to SIEGE or Attack Rolls
You can use a benny prior to a SIEGE roll or attack roll to get a +6 bonus to the roll. You can also spend a benny after the roll to receive a +3 bonus.
These bonuses stack, and you can spend as many bennies prior to and after the roll as you desire (and are willing to part with). Note that bennies spent prior to a roll are spent no matter how good or bad the roll is, and if another benny is spent to reroll, that bonus no longer applies.
Using bennies to add bonuses to other types of rolls is purely at the CKs discretion.
Defense
You can use a benny during a combat round to gain an immediate +6 bonus to your AC, good against everyone who attacks you. This bonus only lasts until the end of the round.
I was looking at using Bennies for extra attacks/actions, a burst of speed and some other things, but I thought I'd start more simply at first, and see how this worked out.
Bennies
Every player typically starts each game session with 3 bennies: special tokens that signify a bit of good luck, fortune or fate. You may get awarded more bennies for great roleplaying, overcoming major obstacles, memorable acts or even for the occasional outlandish action.
Once spent, that benny is returned to the CK and may not be used again. A benny can be spent to achieve any one the following results:
Rerolls
You can use a benny to reroll nearly any type of roll. SIEGE rolls, saving throws, attacks and damage rolls are all eligible be rerolled by spending a benny. Bennies usually cannot be spent on tables or other rolls that arent SIEGE, attack or damage rolls. Using bennies to reroll other types of rolls is purely at the CKs discretion.
When you spend a benny to reroll, reroll whatever die or dice were required for the roll, but remember your original roll. You always take the best of your attempts you can never get a worse result by spending a benny to reroll. You can keep spending bennies and rerolling as long as you like (as long as you have bennies to spend).
Typically you use the same modifiers as the previous rolls. However, if you used a benny to gain a bonus to your roll (see below), that bonus is not retained when use a benny to reroll.
You can only choose to reroll dice that you rolled. You cannot reroll an opponents attack or damage, for example.
Bonuses to SIEGE or Attack Rolls
You can use a benny prior to a SIEGE roll or attack roll to get a +6 bonus to the roll. You can also spend a benny after the roll to receive a +3 bonus.
These bonuses stack, and you can spend as many bennies prior to and after the roll as you desire (and are willing to part with). Note that bennies spent prior to a roll are spent no matter how good or bad the roll is, and if another benny is spent to reroll, that bonus no longer applies.
Using bennies to add bonuses to other types of rolls is purely at the CKs discretion.
Defense
You can use a benny during a combat round to gain an immediate +6 bonus to your AC, good against everyone who attacks you. This bonus only lasts until the end of the round.
I was looking at using Bennies for extra attacks/actions, a burst of speed and some other things, but I thought I'd start more simply at first, and see how this worked out.
I have liked Grey Elf's Fate Points system that he adapted from OGL stuff.
http://www.grey-elf.com/candc/fatepoints.pdf
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daDiceGuy
Magic is the cheat codes for the world.
--- the Drummer (Planetary #7)
http://www.grey-elf.com/candc/fatepoints.pdf
_________________
daDiceGuy
Magic is the cheat codes for the world.
--- the Drummer (Planetary #7)
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SavageRobby
- Hlobane Orc
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I used to feel that way, but started using them since they were an integral part of SW. I like them so much as a GM that I will definitely continue to use some form of them, no matter the system.
What I discovered is that they're not so much a shield against stupidity (because lets face it, when players do something stupid, they pretty much bury themselves, and they'd need dozens of bennies/action points to dig themselves out), but instead they are usually a tool for the PCs to do something at the dramatically appropriate time.
Take Mal in the pilot of Firefly, for example, when he's jogging up the ramp as the Reavers are coming, and he plugs the Lawman square in the head with a single shot. In game terms, those are Bennies at work. We had a similar situation in our last campaign - players up against a big, nasty, hard to kill demon. After rounds of frustration and getting their tails kicked, one of our players used her entire stash of Bennies to modify her attack roll (shooting an arrow) against the BBEG ... and with a called shot to the eye, took it out.
Also, it really helps with lower level characters getting wiped by a stupid bad luck and random bad die rolls. We had that happen in a D20 game (before we abandoned it), where a low level Rogue rolled a pair of 1s in a row on a climbing check then an agility check to catch herself. I wish then we'd had some form of Bennie or action point.
What I discovered is that they're not so much a shield against stupidity (because lets face it, when players do something stupid, they pretty much bury themselves, and they'd need dozens of bennies/action points to dig themselves out), but instead they are usually a tool for the PCs to do something at the dramatically appropriate time.
Take Mal in the pilot of Firefly, for example, when he's jogging up the ramp as the Reavers are coming, and he plugs the Lawman square in the head with a single shot. In game terms, those are Bennies at work. We had a similar situation in our last campaign - players up against a big, nasty, hard to kill demon. After rounds of frustration and getting their tails kicked, one of our players used her entire stash of Bennies to modify her attack roll (shooting an arrow) against the BBEG ... and with a called shot to the eye, took it out.
Also, it really helps with lower level characters getting wiped by a stupid bad luck and random bad die rolls. We had that happen in a D20 game (before we abandoned it), where a low level Rogue rolled a pair of 1s in a row on a climbing check then an agility check to catch herself. I wish then we'd had some form of Bennie or action point.
Do enemies get the same benefits? If not, then they're not very epic villains.
Anyway, the CK of my game uses a C&C-modified Drama Deck from TORG, where we get a random card at the start of the adventure, and we can play it to get some effect, like a +3 bonus on one check, or being invulnerable for one round, or spontaneously hasting, or whatever... and a few cards (I think there are 3 in the deck of 200) that allow everyone to draw again, which can be extremely helpful. Some of these cards are marked with an asterix, so if the effect is described dramatically, you are awarded bonus XP for it, but that's a bit blah because it discourages being dramatic for every other card (only about 5% have the mark) and is counterproductive. Oh, I also don't like the +1 level card or "free magic item" card, but I don't think that stuff should be free (and, yeah, I'm miffed I haven't drawn it, despite one player having pulled them more than once...)
Anyway, the CK of my game uses a C&C-modified Drama Deck from TORG, where we get a random card at the start of the adventure, and we can play it to get some effect, like a +3 bonus on one check, or being invulnerable for one round, or spontaneously hasting, or whatever... and a few cards (I think there are 3 in the deck of 200) that allow everyone to draw again, which can be extremely helpful. Some of these cards are marked with an asterix, so if the effect is described dramatically, you are awarded bonus XP for it, but that's a bit blah because it discourages being dramatic for every other card (only about 5% have the mark) and is counterproductive. Oh, I also don't like the +1 level card or "free magic item" card, but I don't think that stuff should be free (and, yeah, I'm miffed I haven't drawn it, despite one player having pulled them more than once...)
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SavageRobby
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SavageRobby wrote:
Some absolutely should. Mooks and random monsters shouldn't, but the BBEGs and figures of general importance should.
Don't tell my players, but they do in my game. I don't usually bother with the "cannon fodder", but the ones who can put a hurting on the PC's definitely get them.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
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slimykuotoan
- Greater Lore Drake
- Posts: 3669
- Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:00 am
- Location: Nine Hells
re
Treebore wrote:
Don't tell my players, but they do in my game. I don't usually bother with the "cannon fodder", but the ones who can put a hurting on the PC's definitely get them.
I heard that.
For crying out loud. Do your best with the rolls the dice have given you. This is what separates the men from the boys... -Kayolan
Re: Action dice in C&C
concobar wrote:
Been thinking about adding them in.
Basically use one action point to roll and add the total of a die six to any d20 roll or to any damage roll. I am thinking maybe two action points per level or even 1d4 action points per level. As nuch as i do not like eberron I have to admit that the concept of action dice is good and would go a long ways towards making the hero truly heroic.
once or twice per level anyways.
Has anyone else tried this?
In my recent "Ionian" game (my own kitbashed "John Carter of Mars"), we tried 3 Action Points apiece with the ceavat that the player had to creatively describe their use.
In essence, the Action Points allowed them to do things that would ordinarly give negative penalities. (Not that I gave them penalities, a 23 with a -4 is as impressive as 27.)
On a continung basis, I would institute the Eberron rule that all your unused action points are wasted at the end of a class level (or game session depending on how many you give out). I've had players in SW and MnM who loved to hoard their "fate" points.
As for my opinon on the use of fate points, they ususally serve two purposes, one is to entice players to do "stupid" things that most versions of DnD don't support, cinematic play.
The other is a "safety net" for poorly timed rolls. No one likes to die from a lame roll and GM's like their villians to stay around a little longer past a failed save that should have gone his way anyway.
I'm not sure I would give a whole lot of these things to the heroes, as then, they start to rely on them rather than on getting themselves into situations where they're in control... why bother with making sure I can do blah blah when I can just blow one of my 100 points to re-roll until I get the result I want? No, they should be rare, and maybe, even detrimental -- ie, you can succeed, but that is all; for that, you lose something... maybe a preset XP amount, or something.
serleran wrote:
I'm not sure I would give a whole lot of these things to the heroes, ...
That's why I'm nervous about SRD Action Points "as-is" because you can save them level after level. Though I've only finished a 1-20 level game as a player (and never as a GM) the idea of Final Battle (TM) being reduced to "and I blow an action point" scares me.
The Eberron twist and CnC actually go together quite well. As slowly as PC advance, they'd have to really husband their points to make them last a whole level. Sure a 10th level character has 10 Action Points, but theyl'' probably be long gone before a PC Rogue reaches 11th.
On that note, it seems that the Rogue classes would favor them more as compared to other classes.
serleran wrote:
... where they're in control... why bother with making sure I can do blah blah when I can just blow one of my 100 points to re-roll until I get the result I want? ... .
Back in my home state of Oklahoma, we call that "giving them enough rope to hang themselves." A talk with Erik Wuijck of Paladium and Amber RPG fame has some insightful ideas on that.
serleran wrote:
... maybe, even detrimental -- ie, you can succeed, but that is all; for that, you lose something... maybe a preset XP amount, or something.
That's an interesting argument. While I applaud the idea of manditory hinderances (or my own version called Melodramatic Hooks), the idea of "paying" Action Points may run counter to the concept (as I envision it) to why they are introduced in the first place.
I just remember the time I played in Exalted, which is an over the top setting, when it was run by conservative GM. By the time he assessed extra difficulty levels, any potential effects of the Action Dice were canceled out. (this was in a dice pool game engine so the effect was less than a zero plus game. i.e. You needed extra success to do the job well and stylish, not barely succeed.) The effect was basicly turned an epic game into another fantasy heartbreaker.
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SavageRobby
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Like Dadiceguy I have also implemented Grey-Elf's fate system.
With my sons both being very inexperienced roleplayers I thought it would be a great system to help them along. The one thing I like about it is that it drives home that heroic feel by limiting the use of fate points to heroic type actions. I limit the system even more by only allowing the points to be used when there is a mortal threat to the PC's. I have started them off with three points a session, but I may eventually scale that back to the length of an adventure, depending on how they fare.
While I don't want to foster my sons reliance on the fate points I don't want their PC's to die every session either. What is even better is that both of them are action movie junkies and know how heroic actions play out. Like the final lunge of a sword against the charging beast or the quick grasp of something before you fall off the edge of a cliff. Even when I explained it to them they got extremely excited about the possibilities.
Definitely some cool stuff.
With my sons both being very inexperienced roleplayers I thought it would be a great system to help them along. The one thing I like about it is that it drives home that heroic feel by limiting the use of fate points to heroic type actions. I limit the system even more by only allowing the points to be used when there is a mortal threat to the PC's. I have started them off with three points a session, but I may eventually scale that back to the length of an adventure, depending on how they fare.
While I don't want to foster my sons reliance on the fate points I don't want their PC's to die every session either. What is even better is that both of them are action movie junkies and know how heroic actions play out. Like the final lunge of a sword against the charging beast or the quick grasp of something before you fall off the edge of a cliff. Even when I explained it to them they got extremely excited about the possibilities.
Definitely some cool stuff.
Just as a FYI, the luck points, since limited to refresh only after a campaign goal is achieved, are very sufficiently limited so they are used only when necessary.
So they don't "build up" over time. You only get your level+1, if you don't use it, fine. The points only refresh to your max. No savings account.
Sometimes I have felt they had "too much luck", other times they haven't had enough. So over time I feel it definitely balances out.
So the luck point systm can be a good "fate variant".
So they don't "build up" over time. You only get your level+1, if you don't use it, fine. The points only refresh to your max. No savings account.
Sometimes I have felt they had "too much luck", other times they haven't had enough. So over time I feel it definitely balances out.
So the luck point systm can be a good "fate variant".
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.