Troll Lord Games

Using a heavily house-ruled version of C&C (who isn't, it seems like?), and I'm replacing the magic with Advanced d20 Magic (RIP GoO).

Just curious if anyone else has used/is using this and what you've done with the spell casting DCs?

For those looking into this, here's (what little) I've come up with:

Preamble: I use the rule that all rolls have a base 18 difficulty, and Primary stats give you a +6 to your roll. I also use the standard d20 progression of Ability Score modifiers (+1 modifier for every 2 points your score is above 10). I like a little bit more power than baseline C&C, but not the uber-munchkinism of 3.5 D&D.

With that in mind, it looks like the best thing to do is have the base difficulty for the Drain save of the spells to be 18 + spell level. Drain would probably be based off of Constitution, so it might not always be a Primary stat (for PCs it probably will be for most effectiveness, but for NPCs it won't always be).

So, you make a Con save vs. 18 + spell level. If you fail, you take drain (nonlethal damage which can fatigue or even exhaust you) and have to make a Control check.

Control check would be your class' Primary casting Attribute + class level vs. the same DC. Being that it's always going to be a Primary Attribute, this roll should be pretty easy to make for all spellcasters.

If you make the Control check, the spell goes off as normal (but you still suffered drain). If you fail it, you get a mishap.

I haven't gotten to mishaps yet, but what I'll probably do is use the negative effects you find scattered throughout the spells in the C&C PHB of certain spells. You know like "age 1 year and become fatigued at end of spell" or "accidentally open a rift and get sucked into [insert Random Outer Plane here]". That kind of thing.

Any comments? Are these rolls too easy (they don't seem that hard if you know where to put your Primary Attributes)?

Note that I have ramped up many non-spellcaster classes to account for the benefits of being able to cast lots of spells and not having the negative effects inherent in some spells (only if you get a mishap). Balance isn't an issue power-wise, but I'm just wondering if PCs might find the save DC and Control DC a little too easy.

P.S. I've seen a lot of people work on Psionics. The notion I get is that 3.5 XPH conversions are (a) really long and hard, and/or (b) just not worth it. Sadly, I LOVE 3.5 psionics...anyone have any luck/ideas for this?

neuronphaser wrote:
Sadly, I LOVE 3.5 psionics...anyone have any luck/ideas for this?

Easy way suggestion:

Psion is a wizard except for the spells. For spells use the psion progression of power points, maximum number and level of powers known per level, cost of power use, etc. Now the trick to keep things simple: instead of converting the 3.5 powers, make a list of spells from the C&C PHB, that will be considered Psionic Powers. It should work, as 3.5 psionic powers are so similar to spells.

Well, it depends on how easy this sort of thing should be.

A typical CL for any character should be equal to his level. Since spell levels increase half as fast as class levels, you might want the rule to be CL = spell level x 2.

For example, a 10th level wizard has a max spell level of 5. 5 x 2 = 10, which would be an appropriate CL. In effect, his class level cancels out the difficulty of the spell. (All in the same way a 5th level rogue should typically be faced with CL 5 locks, etc.)

A `typical' CL is one that the character should regularly be faced with. These are the tasks that push the character to become better. They are readily attainable, but not trivially so (around 50% chance of success it if the relevent attribute is prime).

So the question you have to ask is, should a 5th level spell be easy or moderately difficult for a 9th level caster? That'll determine the formula to use.

-Fizz

Paradigm is releasing a book, I think its titled Psionics Unleashed, for their living Arcanis, but intentionally made it useable for any d20 game. Its general release is in September but it will be available at Origins and GenCon.

From what I have read I think I will be tempted to use Psionics in my games for the first time in nearly 20 years.

Treebore wrote:
Paradigm is releasing a book, I think its titled Psionics Unleashed, for their living Arcanis, but intentionally made it useable for any d20 game. Its general release is in September but it will be available at Origins and GenCon.

From what I have read I think I will be tempted to use Psionics in my games for the first time in nearly 20 years.

Sounds interesting.







Unfortunately no details. I hope there are no power crystals or that other stuff from 3.X ... maybe I'll stick with the Mind Mage.

yell0w_lantern wrote:
Sounds interesting.







Unfortunately no details. I hope there are no power crystals or that other stuff from 3.X ... maybe I'll stick with the Mind Mage.

I don't think you read all of this thread:
www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=198115

An alternative to the psychic system from WotC is the one done by Green Ronin (The Psychic's Handbook) :
http://www.greenronin.com/Merchant2/mer ... de=grr1306

I happen to be a fan of it, but it's skill based system and therefore not to everyone's taste. One of the things that is a factor with the 3.5 psionics is the ability for the system to stand in for magic. Quite a number of people feel that the WotC psionics can simply replace the standard magic system. So if you're looking for something that kind of resembles the WotC magic system, but using points to power things instead of x/day, then waiting for the psionics system that the Arcanis campaign does might be a better option.

As for using the Advanced d20 Magic system, done by Guardians of Order...

If you happen to have it and love it, go for it. Adjust the DCs down as usual for any 3.x conversion to C&C and you should be ok. I personally am a bit more of a fan of the Unusual Core Classes: Spellweaver product from Misfit Studios. You can find it here: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=7559

The main reason I'm more of a fan, is just an issue of simplicity. It's pretty easy to attach the modifiers to a spell, and they've already given the rating for the different spells from the SRD.

At the end of the day, it's more personal preference than any real failing in the system(s). The GoO product is an expansion of the system used in d20 Slayers, Green Ronin expanded the system in The Black Company and released it as True Sorcery (which is a generic book, although many people think it's for True 20), and then there's the Spellweaver from Misfit Studios. All of 'em are skill based systems with drain for casting, and then kinda go their own little directions from there.

Scurvy_Platypus wrote:
Quite a number of people feel that the WotC psionics can simply replace the standard magic system. So if you're looking for something that kind of resembles the WotC magic system, but using points to power things instead of x/day, then waiting for the psionics system that the Arcanis campaign does might be a better option.

That was a battle "we" lost. I wasted a lot of time on the WotC board pitchin' the idea that 3.0 psonics should be an equal replacement to magic. Me and my deluded self.
I actually like the crystals, it adds a flavor that DnD magic doesn't have (other than wizard's names on spells). Besides, if I didn't like them as crystals, I'll make the items into something else.

But generic d20 stuff, Green Ronin's book is the best.