I *know* I found what I've been looking for...

Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:49 am

All,

Several good fellows over on the RPGnet forums pointed me to Castles and Crusades.

My original post:
All,

Some friends and I that are married and have kids are getting together every once and a while for a guys night and we're looking for a good tabletop to play. Some alcohol will be involved so we don't need anything too in depth, we mainly just want to roll dice and slice through monsters, loot them rotten, and level up. We basically just want a good dungeon romp experience. Here's what we are looking for:

Quick and easy combat

Minimal rules to learn

Something that lends itself to using a board/mat/miniatures if possible

Good loot

Character advancement

We've looked at the D&D Basic set but found it only goes to level 2!? Jeez, what a rip. Is 3.5 going to add too much to bog us down? I have ebay'ed a copy of HeroQuest which I used to have when I was younger but I know you don't level in the game but do at least keep items, gold, etc. We just want to have fun but want something that we can grow our characters with in case it evolves into more.

I've also been seeing the dungeon crawl classic adventures being popular recently and they say D20 on them, would we only need the 3.5 player's book to get a decent romp out of them?

Any ideas for a good dungeon crawl tabletop rpg?

-logga

Several people pointed me towards C&C and I must say that I am most impressed with this site, the ACTIVE forums, and most importantly the content of the games! I am most impressed seeing that someone still supports their games by making ready-to-run modules!!!

I'm calling TLG directly tomorrow to order!!! Is the 3rd printing in stock yet of the PHB ?

-logga

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:04 am

To my knowledge, the 3rd print is to be available very soon (supposedly at LGGC this weekend) but I can't confirm that. If its not, it will be ready very soon.

Welcome to the Crusade.

Oh, and if you like Hero Quest... you'll love Warhammer Quest.

Also, you might want to check out the new version of Talisman when its released in October.

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:18 am

Welcome to the Crusade!

R-
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Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:22 am

Thanks for the welcome!

I definitely plan on checking out the re-releasing of Talisman. Too bad Warhammer Quest is soooooo expensive on Ebay!?

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:28 am

Loggahead wrote:
I'm calling TLG directly tomorrow to order!!! Is the 3rd printing in stock yet of the PHB ?

-logga

If you order it now. I'd say give it a week and a half to get there. The book should be in at the Lake Geneva Game Con this weekend and most like will ship out next week to all and sundry.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:28 am

Yeah, WHQ gets pretty crazy on eBay, but its worth tracking down if you can get it... I wouldn't pay more than $120, though (that's about twice its original retail.) The expansions are another story (I'm still trying to get one of them) and other things, like the Treasure Card packs get nuts in price (they seem to go for about $25-30 each, and there are three...) but, yeah. Great game, but it comes down to how much you really want to spend, and if you've never played, its a steep entrance. Maybe Omote still has his stuff, and could help you out with a few lower prices; I bought some stuff from him.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:47 am

Welcome aboard!

Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:22 am

Is C&C compatible with Lejendary Adventures as well? I see thayt Gygax has an entire series of adventures for C&C and was wondering if these two systems are compatible.

StealthSuitStanley · Post by **StealthSuitStanley** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:01 pm

to the Crusade!

I know you'll enjoy it!
You should also check out HeroScape if you'll be ... There's no levels, but it is real easy to learn and fun to play.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:45 pm

Loggahead wrote:
Is C&C compatible with Lejendary Adventures as well? I see thayt Gygax has an entire series of adventures for C&C and was wondering if these two systems are compatible.

Well lets try and explain it this way. Lejendary Adventure runs on percentiles. And the few times folks have asked Gary about conversion he has mentioned that LA beginning characters are about the equivalent of 4-5th level C&C characters. It is possible to convert if one also remembers that about 5% is equivalent to a +1 in C&C

However, its not as easy as it would be to use the Castle Zagyg background skills rules that come with the Castle Z: Yggsburgh book. A free download of which is available on the main page of the TLG site under, oddly enough, the downloads section. ^_^

Lejendary Adventure is not a class based system. Characters are built with skill bundles and 'levels' are not really concrete in the system.

THat being said, folks have run adventures from LA in C&C games and visa versa. Of course those people have a much better understanding of the power differentials between the two systems than I do. ^_^
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Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:03 pm

Im so impatient, I want to order these books so badly. Amazon still has them in stock. Though I know 3rd print of the PHB is right around the corner and the Monsters and Treasures book is due for print 2 next month.

Is there any reason to force myself to hold out and wait for the current prints?

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:51 pm

Loggahead wrote:
Im so impatient, I want to order these books so badly. Amazon still has them in stock. Though I know 3rd print of the PHB is right around the corner and the Monsters and Treasures book is due for print 2 next month.

Is there any reason to force myself to hold out and wait for the current prints?

We'll, it depends on how much you want an erratta free book? The next two printings are going to be less cluttered with obvious typo's and the like. But if such things dont bother you, the erratta sheets arent more than 5 pages in total for the PHB and M&T combined.

As I said though, if you order from TLG, you will most likely get the 3rd printing PHB within a week and a half at the outside. The delay is not that bad. ^_^
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Peter Bradley

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:20 pm

Loggahead wrote:
Im so impatient, I want to order these books so badly. Amazon still has them in stock. Though I know 3rd print of the PHB is right around the corner and the Monsters and Treasures book is due for print 2 next month.

Is there any reason to force myself to hold out and wait for the current prints?

Since the 3rd print of the PHB is really just around the corner, it won't hurt (too much) if you wait just a bit more. The differences between the 2nd and 3rd print are pretty minor and if you grab the latest errata file for the 2nd printing, you'd be good to go!

The only significant difference would be that the poison tables got a revamp. The old ones are still good but you may want to lower the GP values on the poisons. The other way to look at it is with regards to price. Amazon.com has the books at $13.57 each. I don't expect Amazon to get the 3rd printings till the 2nd printings sell out. In other words, in order to get a copy of the newer printings, you'll be paying full cover price (plus applicable shipping)

The M&T has more errata since it was only in its first printing. However, with an updated errata, you should be fine there too. Same pricing argument applies (if you're trying to save some cash). However, you may be able to wait on this if you have access to some of the critters in AD&D and OD&D as it's sooooo easy to convert. If memory serves as well, there is a sampling of critters here:
http://trolllord.com/files/monsters.pdf

And if you go to the downloads section and grab the two free modules, Rising Knight and Lion In The Ropes, you could last a bit without having to worry about the M&T (for now) if you wanted to wait for the 2nd printing of that.

Either way, you in for a treat!

Moriarty the Red
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Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:34 pm

Right on! I went ahead and placed an order with Troll Lord directly as opposed to buying from Amazon. The PHB will be 3rd print, but MT is 1st. He said they won't be available for 5+ weeks in second print for it.

They informed me that the only main difference in the MT is that the poison chart will be the old one (apparently it is for the poison costs only). But, since Im getting the 3rd print PHB, it will already have the updated chart!

I figured ordering right form them is better anyhow as they make all the profit and not selling under msrp to a retailer. I would rather see them stay in business then save $10. Look at all the other rpg makers trying to stay afloat these days, Palladium for example is in dire straits, as was/is Iron Crown (one of my favorites). In these days of video gaming (and I love my video games), using your imagination has taken a back seat...

Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:39 pm

test for my sig
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:45 pm

Great news! It'll be like X-Mas when you get your package!

Enjoy the Crusade!

M
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Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:50 pm

Can't wait!
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Tank · Post by **Tank** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:23 pm

Welcome to the Crusade! I hope you enjoy the books, and that you find they lend themselves quite easily to a casual style of play.

If you are looking for quick and easy adventures, there's no shortage of them on this site, and on www.dragonsfoot.org , and any AD&D adventures you already have can be converted over with little advance preparation.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:29 pm

There are a few relatively minor additions to the 2nd print M&T. For example, the "special poisons" in M&T are treated with the new poison cost changes, and Peter said there was a couple more pictures added. The errata has been included, so the 2nd print should be pretty much wonderful.

You must all go buy it and make the serleran happy.

Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:53 pm

would it be feasible to run off of the monsters in premade adventures like the free ones in the download section so I could just hold off on the Monsters&Treasure for 2nd print? I would really like the most current solution...
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:20 pm

Loggahead wrote:
would it be feasible to run off of the monsters in premade adventures like the free ones in the download section so I could just hold off on the Monsters&Treasure for 2nd print? I would really like the most current solution...

Easily. The stat blocks are present in the modules and I don't think its all that neccessary to have blocks of flavor text around for the more familar critters that appear in the modules.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:27 pm

I have found that I prefer using most of my monsters from 2E D&D's Monster Manuals. So if you have any books from older editions (1E and 2E) you could have used those easily until you had gotten the 2nd print.

Then again I find I am fine with buying additional printings since the prices are so reasonable to begin with.
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Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:55 pm

Treebore wrote:
I have found that I prefer using most of my monsters from 2E D&D's Monster Manuals. So if you have any books from older editions (1E and 2E) you could have used those easily until you had gotten the 2nd print.

Then again I find I am fine with buying additional printings since the prices are so reasonable to begin with.

Thanks for the input guys!

Im ok with buying multiple versions, but not within a month of each other I would rather start off with the most recent.

-logga
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Emryys · Post by **Emryys** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:51 pm

Welcome Aboard!
I was watching the thread at RPGNet and saw the crusade building til we had won a new recruit...
You'll love the ease of the game and be able to make it your own...

One thing though is I think the 3rd ed PHB has the new covers, so your books won't match...
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:15 pm

Emryys wrote:
Welcome Aboard!
I was watching the thread at RPGNet and saw the crusade building til we had won a new recruit...
You'll love the ease of the game and be able to make it your own...

One thing though is I think the 3rd ed PHB has the new covers, so your books won't match...

I thought the new covers weren't majorly different? More like altering the borders and such.

Besides, the shade of the cover of my 1st and 2nd print PH's don't match.
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sieg · Post by **sieg** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:23 pm

Welcome, and don't worry; TLG wouldn't support a game that you can't play while drunk. How else could the Trolls playtest anything?
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:27 pm

sieg wrote:
Welcome, and don't worry; TLG wouldn't support a game that you can't play while drunk. How else could the Trolls playtest anything?

Are we supposed to make that public knowledge?
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:30 pm

Its not revealing anything. Some matters are of public discourse and readily available by searching court records....

Heheh.

Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:58 pm

sieg wrote:
Welcome, and don't worry; TLG wouldn't support a game that you can't play while drunk. How else could the Trolls playtest anything?

YES!!!

Right on! Playing games to me is all about having fun. No reason not have some beer involved!

I need to change my thread title to "I know I found..."
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Loggahead · Post by **Loggahead** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:01 pm

Emryys wrote:
Welcome Aboard!
I was watching the thread at RPGNet and saw the crusade building til we had won a new recruit...
You'll love the ease of the game and be able to make it your own...

One thing though is I think the 3rd ed PHB has the new covers, so your books won't match...

Well thanks for pointing me in this direction!

I called TLG back and canceled on the M&T. I dl'd several resources from here and dragonsfoot that give me enough to get us going on some ready-to-run modules with monsters and loot in it. This way I can hold off for the 2nd print of M&T (Im OCD like that...) I like symmetry and stuff to match up.
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