Troll Lord Games

I was looking at how much experience points are given for defeating a monster.

1. Is this XP given for each creature encountered? For example, aboleth has XP of 1610+10. Is this 1610+10 per aboleth or it doesn't matter how many aboleths only give 1610+10?

2. What does the number after the "+" mean. For example, aboleth has XP of 1610+10. What is the +10? I noticed that every one of the numbers match the creatures HD though, other than that I don't know what it is for.

Happy gaming

In the example you gave, 1610 is the base XP and the number after the '+' is multiplied by the hit points the creature has.

For example, if it has 50 hit points, the creature would be worth 1610 + 500 xp (for a total of 2110).

This is calculated on a per creature basis.

Hope that helps... and Welcome to the Crusade!

Moriarty the Red
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

The number after the plus is the XP given per Hit Point of the monster. So, if you have an aboleth with 20 HP, it is worth 1610 + (10 * 20) or 1810. This is done for each monster. In other words, if three aboleths (one at 20 HP, one at 25 HP, and one at 40 HP) were encountered you'd get (1610 * 3) + (10 * 20) + (10 * 25) + (10 * 40) or 5680 for the lot.

serleran wrote:
The number after the plus is the XP given per Hit Point of the monster. So, if you have an aboleth with 20 HP, it is worth 1610 + (10 * 20) or 1810. This is done for each monster. In other words, if three aboleths (one at 20 HP, one at 25 HP, and one at 40 HP) were encountered you'd get (1610 * 3) + (10 * 20) + (10 * 25) + (10 * 40) or 5680 for the lot.

Plus the XP value of their treasure, which can be a lot more.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

If they have treasure, and if you can get it... these are aboleths after all. You know, deep, aquatic creatures that can survive the pressures of being 3 miles below sea level... But, ordinarily, yeah, if you want to give XP for treasure. I don't, but it might be BtB (if it is, I never paid attention to it.)

serleran wrote:
If they have treasure, and if you can get it... these are aboleths after all. You know, deep, aquatic creatures that can survive the pressures of being 3 miles below sea level... But, ordinarily, yeah, if you want to give XP for treasure. I don't, but it might be BtB (if it is, I never paid attention to it.)

It is BtB. I don't do it BtB, but I do give XP for treasure. If I didn't my 10th level game would still be 4th or 5th level after 18 months of very regular gaming. Too slow for me, let alone the players.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Not BTB, but I like the system a friend of mine is using for treasure in his Classic D&D game ... you can spend treasure (on training) to gain XP on a 1-to-1 GP-to-XP basis. I'll probably put some limits on it in case my group nets some huge treasure haul, but in all, I like the simplicity of it.

SavageRobby wrote:
Not BTB, but I like the system a friend of mine is using for treasure in his Classic D&D game ... you can spend treasure (on training) to gain XP on a 1-to-1 GP-to-XP basis. I'll probably put some limits on it in case my group nets some huge treasure haul, but in all, I like the simplicity of it.

I'm not a fan of this idea, simply because in my own experience, players would go back to "clean sweeping" out dungeons like they did back in the old days, and selling EVERYTHING that would bring a gold piece.

Hell, I know I would be tempted to start lifting silverware and candlesticks.

Role playing games were originally about killing the monsters and taking their stuff. So let the PCs clean sweep. You can always correct the situation once they get outside, by having their gems turn to worthless stones, the gold turn to gold-plated lead, or my favorite example, killing the dragon and losing half the party only to find out that you just acquired 60,000 chocolate-centered gold pieces, worth about a copper piece each.

A year and a half ago, in a thread long since dusty and moldy, I tossed out a hair-brained idea regarding solving this little problem of clean sweeping dungeons. I thought it was good, and I'm glad it's still around to be found (though it's on a site I have nothing to do with anymore. )

Quote:
You know, I'm of the XP for gold and magic camp, but here's a thought that just came from out from left field. I get the nagging feeling that it's a lot like what the book would say regarding XP, but I don't recall.

Regarding gold, let them earn all the gold in the world. However, they earn XP only on the gold they spend, not what they keep. This does not include donations to any worthy causes, with the exception of the cleric and paladin, who must tithe to their churches. (this is so that these two classes don't get shafted in earning XP.)

Regarding magic items, if they keep the magic item, they do not earn XP for that item. They get XP only if they spend the gold they earned in selling the item. So, for example, a ring of swimming in the DMG is valued at 5,000gp. Let's say a character has one and sells it for 3,000gp. He gets no XP for that ring of swimming he just sold unless he spends the 3,000gp he acquired in selling it.

_________________
NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.

Oh, I encourage the party to take as much as they can... makes them slower, more cautious (when they first get the stuff) and prime targets for all sorts of villainy. Heck, I remember this one game I was in where we had a spade of colossal excavation (well, that was its name, but it wasn't quite the same as the ordinary version) and a portable hole that opened to the place it was created (which we'd already conquered and claimed as our own.) Well, we killed all the monsters guarding this castle so we did the first thing that came to our heads... we started excavating it, brick by brick, and dumping it through the hole, using scrying (actually, remote viewing) and some other magic to communicate with lackeys there to start the reassembling. It took us a while to get the castle through, and even longer to get it rebuilt... but we moved that thing some 2000 miles or so. Not BtB at all, but fun anyway.

serleran wrote:
we started excavating it, brick by brick, and dumping it through the hole

Hah-hah! I can't help but be reminded of a notorious KoDT strip. With Serleran of course playing the role of Brian van Hoose.

azog wrote:
I'm not a fan of this idea, simply because in my own experience, players would go back to "clean sweeping" out dungeons like they did back in the old days, and selling EVERYTHING that would bring a gold piece.

Hell, I know I would be tempted to start lifting silverware and candlesticks.

Heck, my players would do that anyways.

SavageRobby wrote:
Heck, my players would do that anyways.

So do mine. They are fully aware that the better your bank roll the better your chances of survival. Since it allows them to buy whatever they think they need to pull off the next mission/adventure/whatever. Bribes, etc..
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

I've never awarded experience points for treasure, it never made sense to me, I just try to keep in my when the players level, and award experience points accordingly, I don't want them to gain a level every adventure, but after 2 or 3 quests they should be about ready, I will increase the experience if they do something particularity heroic or clever.

Awarded XP for GP spent on training is an interesting concept, and would certainly eat away at a players treasure horde.

Also, I think the selling of magic items would be very difficult, firstly you have to convince someone of it's actual magical effects, easy for some items, not so easy for others, than find a buyer rich enough that wants it, it could be become a quest in it's own right, I don't just have magic shops in every town when I run a game.

Here's how I award EP.

Treasure spent by adventurers is converted into experience points on a 1 for 1 basis, but only if the treasure is spent doing things like getting drunk at the local tavern, renting an alcove in the back of the tavern to use a slave girl in, and so on. Treasure donated to an institution, treasure used to purchase equipment, and the treasure lost to training, do not convert

into experience points.

Magic items do not have an intrinsic EP value. To earn any EP from a magic item, the magic item must be sold to someone not affiliated with the characters and their henchmen. The coin then must be spent as noted above to earn the experience.

For the record, I charge a fee of 25% of any Character's treasure hoard to increase in level. As for the sale of magic items, 25% of the listed price, at best.

Now, regarding the d20 adventure and EP awards, if you have a copy of Monsters & Treasure and the monster is in that book, use the EP value given. If not in Monsters & Treasure, then you can figure its EP value using page 6 of Monsters & Treasure, or simply assign what you feel is right.
_________________
NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.

I've dumped xp completely.

We play once every two weeks, for 4-5 hours a session. Campaigns generally last us 6-10 months before we want a change/DM gets burned out/etc. After several years, we've gotten tired of only reaching 4-5th level.

Myself and Naelex have now defaulted to 1 level a session, up until 7th level, then we slow it down (he's doing 1 level/3 sessions, I'm thinking about 1 lvl/2 sessions--which lets players reach 12th level in 16 sessions, which is 4-5 months of play for us).

I don't like 'selling' of magic items. My last campaign, most of the more powerful magic items were given as gifts to my players from powerful patrons (much like in Lord of the Rings), although some items were lifted from monster hoards or evil dead npc's.

In our last campaign, the group acquired a potion of longevity. They were near Greyhawk City, so they decided to go there and notifiy all the local sages, sellers of esoteric items, and wizards of the item, and held an auction for it. I thought that was ingenius.

I don't give xp for coinage. The cash is reward enough...and my players earn it.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

I use XP for treasure. The bulk (75%-80%) of the PCs' XP comes from treasure, with the balance coming from monsters.

I find this works fine. Typically, the PCs hoard their treasure, but it also gets used up on stuff like temple donations (often for healing), research, buying buildings, keeping NPCs happy, and such. If you like the variation where PCs get XP for treasure they spend/use, you might take a look at Arneson's First Fantasy Campaign, which has a section where the PCs define lists of interests and get XP when they use their treasure for their interests. The interests include wine, women, song, wealth, fame, religion, and hobbies. (Wealth means hoarded wealth, so you gain XP when you hoard and you lose those XP if the wealth is spent/lost/stolen.) I don't sweat the PCs having a lot of treasure. In fact, I like it. I think it suits the genre: paying your bar-tab with gems, easy come/easy go, et cetera.

Gaining XP for treasure reinforces certain aspects of the game that I like. It's a goal or story based award, where the story is "adventurers seek fortune (and glory)." By making treasure the major goal, you reward play that gains the treasure in the most efficient manner. That is, not fighting and gaining treasure is better than fighting and gaining treasure (even if it's only because it allows you to save those resources and then use them on an actual fight for even more treasure).

XP for treasure is an abstraction, like hit points are an abstraction. It suits the game and its default assumptions. It's also an abstraction that has some degree of impartiality about it. You either get the reward or you don't. It's a way to actually measure skillful play.

Lastly, by having such a system for XP awards, you reinforce the XP advancement schemes and the character class balance. Remember that a Thief, for example, advances much faster than a Magic User, and that is one of the ways the system balances the power of the classes. Keep that in mind when you're house-ruling XP. For example, a house-rule that uses a single XP advancement chart instead of class-based charts would take away one benefit of playing a Thief or Cleric, compared to a Magic User. Removing XP entirely and leveling up everyone at the same time (e.g. after three adventures, after a successful mission, or whatever) could have a similar effect. I'm not saying you absolutely shouldn't do this, but if you do it you should be aware of how your rule impacts the existing structure.

Quote:
Also When I am done running the A series I am thinking of running a 3.x adventure. For xp for those who have done that should I continue using the same method I am now, just lower the monsters xp?

I'd run the module and award XP under the system you're playing. That is, if the PCs encounter an ogre in the 3e module, I'd use the stats for a C&C ogre and the XP awards for a C&C ogre. I'd ignore the 3e stat-blocks, except as a guideline for converting monsters that don't have direct C&C representations.

Quote:
While I am on this how much do you allow players to sell magic items for. I am thinking a 1/5 ratio?

I use the price guidelines from the 1e AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide. For more common items, selling isn't usually a problem as long as the PCs can go to a city. For more expensive items, the players might have to hunt for a buyer. Indeed, selling an expensive or powerful item might be an adventure, in itself.
_________________
http://www.philotomy.com
Lost City Campaign Log

I make up arbitrary amounts and dole them out at the end of adventures. I figure, "They should almost be 3rd level now" and adjust accordingly. I've DM'd long enough to know when players should be close to advancement. Yeah, call me lazy. It's cool.
_________________
kim@trolllord.com

Click here: http://tiny.cc/4rvo5

I use monsters and treasure XP only a guideline. Though I do use them, if the PCs are advancing a little too slowly I give them a % more than what was earned. If it's too fast, I do the opposite.

I play in a C&C Greyhawk game where the CK absolutely does by the book for XP. Though he does give out story-based awards and the like, he's a stickler. I would conservatively say that we play 2-3 sessions per month for the past 18 months. All of out characters are from 4-6th level, averaging about 5th or a little higher (those Monks need a damn lot of XP) . So you can see when going by the book how slow XP can be gained in C&C. If you are fine with that, excellent. If that is too slow, just give out more XP.

~O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Omote wrote:
I use monsters and treasure XP only a guideline. Though I do use them, if the PCs are advancing a little too slowly I give them a % more than what was earned. If it's too fast, I do the opposite.

I play in a C&C Greyhawk game where the CK absolutely does by the book for XP. Though he does give out story-based awards and the like, he's a stickler. I would conservatively say that we play 2-3 sessions per month for the past 18 months. All of out characters are from 4-6th level, averaging about 5th or a little higher (those Monks need a damn lot of XP) . So you can see when going by the book how slow XP can be gained in C&C. If you are fine with that, excellent. If that is too slow, just give out more XP.

~O

That's the problem we ran in to. As i said, in the Greyhawk game I ran, we played 4-5 hours a session, every 2 weeks. After 19 sessions (11 months) the players were all around 5 level.

I gave xp by-the-book for monsters and treasures, and gave 200xp a session for story award, and additonal xp at the end of each adventure arc.

Maybe we're all just ADHD, but around the 6 month mark (give or take a few in either direction) we all get ansy and want a change of venue.

I've done it a number of ways over the years but right now I'm doing something sort of different. I use monster XP only BUT I don't divide by party members. This makes monsters, especially bigger HD monsters, worth a lot more. I also add minor story rewards but no gold xp. This game is about 11 months old and we've had about 13-14 games. Characters are mostly 5th level now. It's seems to be working just right so I'll stick with it.

-Mike

some questions for you august minds:

1. In C&C BtB, Monster EP seems, well, paltry. It would take a whole lot of kobolds to level up a party of four 1st level characters, for instance, since there's only an average of something like 6 ep/per kobold (I don't have the book in front of me, but it's low). I recognize that PCs won't fight only kobolds, but 1st level characters aren't going to kill a lot of 6 HD monsters, and the EP awards for all monsters of HD 1-3 is pretty low.

2. EP for treasure. I've been doing this for the last 10 months, and like it for most purposes. But since in C&C the vast proportion of EP necessary to level is going to come from treasure (see point 1 in re monsters), the amount of treasure awarded is going to have to increase as PCs level. This leads to the old inflation problem: where does all that treasure go? So far I've basically ignored this question (i.e., the 6th level PCs return to town with 10,000 or more worth of loot - even if they spend it all, how does that affect the local economy?). I will probably continue to ignore the question for practical purposes, but it does periodically bother me.

What do you folks who've been doing Treasure-for-EP for years do about the inflationary spiral?

Of course as lots of folks elsewhere have observed (and Philotomy did above), EP is an abstraction, just like HP. It is also, IMO, tied to the type of game one wants to run. Do you want a 'realistic' Harn-style campaign? Then it seems to me that Ep for treasure is not going to work very well. Do you want to emphasize story and plot? Then story awards are clearly more important. Do you want to emphasize cautious exploration? then maybe ep from treasure is best. If you want epic monster slaying, then ep from monsters alone is best. etc, etc.
_________________
The only thing you find in the middle of the road are dead animals and dumb Americans - Anton Newcombe

In part 2 of your statement, treasure would only need to increase if you were trying to keep your rate of leveling around the same as it would happen at the lower levels. IMO, it is unnecessary to add treasure since leveling should begin to slow down at higher levels...making it more difficult to level...or at least taking proportionally longer unless you want to be running a higher level campaign quickly.

For what it's worth.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

good point, Googleplex. I am hardly in favor of too-rapid advancement. My PCs are 4th level after about 15 sessions, and we're all pretty happy (okay, the wizard is champing at the bit, but the rest are happy).

wrt treasure for ep and inflation, it is still a problem even at levels 2-6. but maybe only I worry about such things (and then only in the abstract)
_________________
The only thing you find in the middle of the road are dead animals and dumb Americans - Anton Newcombe

I give a flat XP award per session played, regardless of monsters defeated or treasure gained. The first session of the campaign is worth 600 XP. Double the previous award every 3-5 sessions. A player who cannot make the session gets half the normal XP for their character.

I find that giving flat XP encourages role-playing even better than actually awarding extra XP for it. Because the players don't fell like they're being pressured to behave a certain way for the CK, they are more likely to actually role-play well just to enjoy themselves. Furthermore, cowardly and pacifistic characters become viable options, and won't retard the advancement of other players' PCs.

As for magic items, only things like minor potions are actually bought and sold in the normal way. The "price" for other items depends upon the buyer, and everyone who might possibly be able to purchase an enchanted item is extremely dangerous to deal with. There are no "magic shops", because no person powerful enough to have real magic would deign to act like a common merchant. Among mortals, typically only very corrupt nobles or wizards would bargain for magic, and they are more likely to just try to take the object by force. Anybody rich enough to be able to afford an enchanted item will consider it to be beneath their social class to actually pay money to possess it.

Merely announcing that one is in possession of a powerful magic item will draw lots of unwanted attention, from the Thieves Guild, Magical Orders, and good-aligned clergy (who generally do not like sorcery). None of them will be typically interested in buying the item, but will want to either steal it or destroy it.

Devils will offer to perform some evil service as payment for an enchanted object. Fairy Folk will buy magic, but they will offer things like longevity, good luck, or the protection of a minor Fairy, instead of coinage. An Angel may take an enchanted item (in order to remove it from the mundane world), and give a blessing of some kind in return. Demons don't generally want to remove magical items from the mundane world, but prefer to keep such objects where they can create trouble.
_________________
The Engine of Oracles: Creations For Gaming
http://engineoforacles.wordpress.com/

My method is BtB for monsters and treasure, as well as achieving the group goal (rescue the kidnapped noble child, find a cure for the wizard who's lost his mind, get the strange book to someone who can translate it, etc.). I'll occasionally give a small award for doing something incredibly cool, or hilariously funny, if it's done in character.

One way to mitigate the inflation issue is to make greater use of things like jewelry and precious objects. But it's also true that I hand-wave some of that, as I'm personally willing to dial back that part of the realism a bit for the sake of the game.

Also, don't forget that magical items can be worth considerable experience but don't inject an excess of cash into the economy.
_________________
"I don't wanna be remembered as the guy who died because he underestimated the threat posed by a monkey."