If you were to implement called shots in your game how would you do it? Would you give a different modifier to hit the leg, arm, head, neck, object being held, ect.? I'm just not sure how I want to handle called shots.
Happy gaming
Called Shot
Head shots have a mechanism already. The AC changes if a helmet is worn. However, this is generally not enough as it will result in every attack being a called shot. Therefore... I would say that all such attacks are the only attack possible in a round, are always last in initiative, and suffer a -8 penalty, in addition to any bonus the target's AC might gain. Indeed, even this might result in every attack being a called shot (why not when you need a natural 20 anyway?) so some sort of punishment for failure is needed: a failed called shot results in the loss of initiative the following round and being restricted to moving actions only. Still, at very high levels, fighters might opt for this all the time, since they can take down a foe in one hit, so, I would say: a called shot cannot kill an opponent, instead dealing double damage (base roll times two, then add bonuses; a head shot does three times before bonuses). Obviously, this is a better tactic for someone at range, since they are out of the harm of direct retaliation on failure.
Something along these lines, anyway. Alternatively, you can do it a slight bit easier, and replace the attack roll with a special SIEGE-like attack roll: d20 + BtH + Strength (or Dex modifier) + magic enhancement + miscellaneous modifiers >= 20 + HD (BtH) of defender + 1/2 AC + miscellaneous modifiers. Under this system, a called shot can kill, but is far less likely to happen.
There are other ways of handling it too.
Something along these lines, anyway. Alternatively, you can do it a slight bit easier, and replace the attack roll with a special SIEGE-like attack roll: d20 + BtH + Strength (or Dex modifier) + magic enhancement + miscellaneous modifiers >= 20 + HD (BtH) of defender + 1/2 AC + miscellaneous modifiers. Under this system, a called shot can kill, but is far less likely to happen.
There are other ways of handling it too.
Called shots would work thusly:
Arm, leg, or limb= -4 to hit
Hand, foot, or head= -8 to hit.
Effects of a called shot? For one, only the armor that is covering that portion of the body applies. Thus, if someone is wearing +2 full plate with a +1 shield with no helmet, then targeting the head is a good idea. -8 to hit AC 10 is better than no penalty to hit AC 22. This will also encourage PCs to buy friggin' helmets!
Targeting arms & legs? That is up to the CK to determine by the circumstances. Typically there should be no special effect. But if you used a vorpal weapon or sword of sharpness there could be...
Targeting hands and feet? Well, targeting a hand I would allow a free Disarm check to the weapon held in that hand. Of course, you cannot target the hand holding a shield. Targeting a foot should also have no special side effect (yes, you may injure their foot, but adrenaline will enable them to soldier on).
Now, another thing to add into this might be critical hits to a targeted area. That might be able to do a "crippling blow". If you had targeted another body part and landed a crit, instead of doing max damage +d4 for the crit, you instead just do +1d4 (not max, as the extremities are less vital to survival than the internal organs) but there is some additional effect.
Head: Normal critical hit effects (max+1d4)
Arm: -2 to attacks with that arm.
Shield Arm: N/A; not a viable target, because of the shield.
Leg: attacker makes a STR check, w/o level, CL = target's HD or STR mod. Success indicates foe has fallen to the ground.
Hand: Disarm is automatic, no roll required. If foe was attacking unarmed, they cannot attack with that hand/claw anymore (until healed) as it is now broken.
Foot: Limping. Movement crippled. Target moves at -10 feet per round, and has -1 to AC for being unable to shift its weight properly for dodging.
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Arm, leg, or limb= -4 to hit
Hand, foot, or head= -8 to hit.
Effects of a called shot? For one, only the armor that is covering that portion of the body applies. Thus, if someone is wearing +2 full plate with a +1 shield with no helmet, then targeting the head is a good idea. -8 to hit AC 10 is better than no penalty to hit AC 22. This will also encourage PCs to buy friggin' helmets!
Targeting arms & legs? That is up to the CK to determine by the circumstances. Typically there should be no special effect. But if you used a vorpal weapon or sword of sharpness there could be...
Targeting hands and feet? Well, targeting a hand I would allow a free Disarm check to the weapon held in that hand. Of course, you cannot target the hand holding a shield. Targeting a foot should also have no special side effect (yes, you may injure their foot, but adrenaline will enable them to soldier on).
Now, another thing to add into this might be critical hits to a targeted area. That might be able to do a "crippling blow". If you had targeted another body part and landed a crit, instead of doing max damage +d4 for the crit, you instead just do +1d4 (not max, as the extremities are less vital to survival than the internal organs) but there is some additional effect.
Head: Normal critical hit effects (max+1d4)
Arm: -2 to attacks with that arm.
Shield Arm: N/A; not a viable target, because of the shield.
Leg: attacker makes a STR check, w/o level, CL = target's HD or STR mod. Success indicates foe has fallen to the ground.
Hand: Disarm is automatic, no roll required. If foe was attacking unarmed, they cannot attack with that hand/claw anymore (until healed) as it is now broken.
Foot: Limping. Movement crippled. Target moves at -10 feet per round, and has -1 to AC for being unable to shift its weight properly for dodging.
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moriarty777
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I've kept it simpler. Called shots are a -4 to hit. Naturally, if the target is the head, it has its own AC rating based on the helm the opponent is wearing. Aside from that, it can't be 'fatal' or otherwise permanently blind or maim them. I believe this is what the older AD&D rules did.
Personally, if a player is inventive enough to apply something like this in the middle of combat, I will have a bit of fun with it. The big loin-cloth wearing and well endowed male barbarian gets kicked in the jewels. For something like that (which provides an amusing visual) I'd give bonus damage to the attack (nothing crazy) and give the barbarian a (large) to hit penalty on the barbarians next round. That same barbarian is liable to be very pissed off.
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Personally, if a player is inventive enough to apply something like this in the middle of combat, I will have a bit of fun with it. The big loin-cloth wearing and well endowed male barbarian gets kicked in the jewels. For something like that (which provides an amusing visual) I'd give bonus damage to the attack (nothing crazy) and give the barbarian a (large) to hit penalty on the barbarians next round. That same barbarian is liable to be very pissed off.
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SavageRobby
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I don't like the very concrete mechanic Called Shots in the context of abstract Hit Points and Armor Class. I think the very specific nature of Called Shots are counter to what the system represents, at least, as I understand.
(I don't dislike Called Shots in general, when the system is appropriate. For example, Savage Worlds has a nice mechanism for them that fits in well with its attack/toughness/wounds paradigm.)
(I don't dislike Called Shots in general, when the system is appropriate. For example, Savage Worlds has a nice mechanism for them that fits in well with its attack/toughness/wounds paradigm.)
I think the size of the target of the called shot should matter. A hand is flailing around in combat and is much smaller, for example, than the torso.
I'd say about -4 for a torso, -6 for a leg/arm, -8 for the head, -12 for a hand or foot. But these aren't hard rules, it'll vary with situation. I like Serl's idea of only one attack and loss of initiative.
-Fizz
I'd say about -4 for a torso, -6 for a leg/arm, -8 for the head, -12 for a hand or foot. But these aren't hard rules, it'll vary with situation. I like Serl's idea of only one attack and loss of initiative.
-Fizz
Well, now there is a way to make a rogue more useful in a combat where he cannot sneak attack or back attack. He can steal enemy helmets!
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SavageRobby wrote:
I don't like the very concrete mechanic Called Shots in the context of abstract Hit Points and Armor Class. I think the very specific nature of Called Shots are counter to what the system represents, at least, as I understand.
(I don't dislike Called Shots in general, when the system is appropriate. For example, Savage Worlds has a nice mechanism for them that fits in well with its attack/toughness/wounds paradigm.)
Yes, I feel the same. Plus I tell my players I won't used called shots unless they do, and as DM I'll have ten to 20 times the opportunity to make called shots than they will. IE their characters won't see 3rd level.
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
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Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
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Philotomy Jurament
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SavageRobby wrote:
I don't like the very concrete mechanic Called Shots in the context of abstract Hit Points and Armor Class.
I agree.
I would handle it like this:
Player: I want to swing at his head!
Me: Okay, make your attack.
Player: [makes a standard attack roll] I miss.
Me: You send a flurry of strong blows at his head, but he raises his guard and fends them off. [rolls attack for enemy and misses] However, he's so busy defending himself that his own offense suffers -- the only counterattack he manages is feeble, and you easily avoid the thrust.
Player: I swing at his head, again! [rolls standard attack]
Me: A hit -- roll damage. [players rolls damage, gets a 1 -- the enemy has 6] You continue your ferocious assault, hammering blows down around his head and shoulders. He manages to fend them off, but he's sweating and grimacing, and doesn't look as confident as he did, earlier. [rolls enemy attack, but misses] He swings wildly, trying to force you back, but you cooly lean away and allow his attack to pass by.
Player: I try for his head, again! [rolls standard attack]
Me: A hit -- roll damage. [player rolls damage, gets a total of 8] This time, you feint low as you step in, and he drops his guard to compensate. Acting immediately, you bring your backstroke up in a vicious arc, connecting solidly with his head. Gore spatters everywhere and his falling body nearly pulls the sword from your grip, but you jerk the blade free...
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Birthright
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Philotomy Jurament wrote:
I agree.
I would handle it like this:
Player: I want to swing at his head!
Me: Okay, make your attack.
Player: [makes a standard attack roll] I miss.
Me: You send a flurry of strong blows at his head, but he raises his guard and fends them off. [rolls attack for enemy and misses] However, he's so busy defending himself that his own offense suffers -- the only counterattack he manages is feeble, and you easily avoid the thrust.
Player: I swing at his head, again! [rolls standard attack]
Me: A hit -- roll damage. [players rolls damage, gets a 1 -- the enemy has 6] You continue your ferocious assault, hammering blows down around his head and shoulders. He manages to fend them off, but he's sweating and grimacing, and doesn't look as confident as he did, earlier. [rolls enemy attack, but misses] He swings wildly, trying to force you back, but you cooly lean away and allow his attack to pass by.
Player: I try for his head, again! [rolls standard attack]
Me: A hit -- roll damage. [player rolls damage, gets a total of 8] This time, you feint low as you step in, and he drops his guard to compensate. Acting immediately, you bring your backstroke up in a vicious arc, connecting solidly with his head. Gore spatters everywhere and his falling body nearly pulls the sword from your grip, but you jerk the blade free...
very nice!
Personally, I assume every melee attack includes many called shots. Because the object of the fight is to kill the other opponent, OFCOURSE, the attacks are going to be focused on the kill zones. I figure a critical hit represents success in hitting those kill zones.
Just and FYI, I don't consider a melee attack roll a single strike. With a 10 second round, an attack roll to me is a series of cuts, thrusts, blocks, and parries, which result in some or no damage. So called shots in melee don't make sense to me with this mechanic. A Fighter's second attack simply represents to me an ability to cause damage more often and possibly more damage because of two successful attack rolls.
For ranged weapons it's similar. When aiming the bow, I'm assuming the character is aiming for the head or heart. Why wouldn't they be?? So specifically stating, "I'm making a called shot to the head." doesn't make sense to me. Now, a trick shot would be different, like trying to knock something out of an opponent's hand, etc. For that, I'd use the SEIGE Engine modified by the opponent's HD or level
Just and FYI, I don't consider a melee attack roll a single strike. With a 10 second round, an attack roll to me is a series of cuts, thrusts, blocks, and parries, which result in some or no damage. So called shots in melee don't make sense to me with this mechanic. A Fighter's second attack simply represents to me an ability to cause damage more often and possibly more damage because of two successful attack rolls.
For ranged weapons it's similar. When aiming the bow, I'm assuming the character is aiming for the head or heart. Why wouldn't they be?? So specifically stating, "I'm making a called shot to the head." doesn't make sense to me. Now, a trick shot would be different, like trying to knock something out of an opponent's hand, etc. For that, I'd use the SEIGE Engine modified by the opponent's HD or level
Dristram wrote:
Personally, I assume every melee attack includes many called shots. Because the object of the fight is to kill the other opponent, OFCOURSE, the attacks are going to be focused on the kill zones. I figure a critical hit represents sucess in hitting those kill zones.
Just and FYI, I don't consider a melee attack roll a single strike. With a 10 second round, an attack roll to me is a series of cuts, thrusts, blocks, and parries, which result in some or no damage. So called shots in melee don't make sense to me with this mechanic. A Fighter's second attack simply represents to me an ability to cause damage more often and possibly more damage because of two sucessful attack rolls.
For ranged weapons it's similar. When aiming the bow, I'm assuming the character is aiming for the head or heart. Why wouldn't they be?? So specifically stating, "I'm making a called shot to the head." doesn't make sense to me. Now, a trick shot would be different, like trying to knock something out of an opponent's hand, etc. For that, I'd use the SEIGE Engine modified by the opponent's HD or level.
I have seen combat described this way in Dragon magazine since its inception, so that is what I keep in mind whem I make decisions about things like this.
Like was menitoned earlier in the thread, the HP is an abstraction. Called shots bypasses that abstraction, so I don't like it to be done.
Hence my promise to not do it as long as my players don't. I'll have far more opportunities for called shots to work and kill them than they will get to kill NPC's. So I prefer we just all keep it abstract.
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Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
While i understand the abstraction argument, there are instances that a specific location needs to be hit.
For example- you want to knock a potion out of the hands of your opponent. Or, you want to chop off his hand to remove that magic ring. Several monsters also have specific vulnerable places.
I don't think called shots should be used for the sake of gore. Rather, they should be used for specific purposes. Given that such tasks are inherently more difficult, i think modifiers are appropriate.
After all, if there is no penalty to doing so, then why not do it all the time?
-Fizz
For example- you want to knock a potion out of the hands of your opponent. Or, you want to chop off his hand to remove that magic ring. Several monsters also have specific vulnerable places.
I don't think called shots should be used for the sake of gore. Rather, they should be used for specific purposes. Given that such tasks are inherently more difficult, i think modifiers are appropriate.
After all, if there is no penalty to doing so, then why not do it all the time?
-Fizz
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Philotomy Jurament
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Fizz wrote:
For example- you want to knock a potion out of the hands of your opponent.
In that case, you're not really targeting your enemy. I'd assign an AC or probability based on the circumstances and roll.
Quote:
Or, you want to chop off his hand to remove that magic ring.
That's a tough one. If it's a normal combat situation, I would still require hit points to be whittled down before allowing such a wound (representing the enemy using up his luck/endurance/skill/etc). In this case, I'd have zero hit points be "hand severed/combat over" rather than "enemy dead." If you don't like that, and want the hand severed before reaching zero hit points, then I'd only allow it when hit points have reached 1HD's worth (e.g. for example, when a Fighter gets to his last 8 or less, a cleric to his last 6 or less, et cetera).
Note that this is also highly dependent on the situation. My hypothetical ruling, above, assumes the enemy is humanoid and that removing his hand is a very severe wound. If he is undead that might not be true. Or if he is a multi-limbed statue. Et cetera.
Also, consider that certain magic items (that are considered quite powerful) do things like this. For example, vorpal swords or swords of sharpness -- they allow you to sever limbs/heads without whittling down hit points, first. The fact that they're considered potent magic should weigh in your decisions about allowing "called shots" to do such things.
Quote:
Several monsters also have specific vulnerable places.
In those cases, the monster entry typically lists a separate AC, and sometimes separate hit points for the location. That is, they are special situations/exceptions to the normal hit point/damage rules. That's fine, but I think such situations should be limited to exceptions, rather than making it an integral part of the combat system, or having "standard" called shots modifiers.
IMO, keep the system abstract, accept that it's abstract, and let the DM handle exception cases with situation-specific rulings. For D&D, I think that works better than trying to graft on a general system of called-shot rules.
Re: Called Shot
The 8th Samurai wrote:
If you were to implement called shots in your game how would you do it? Would you give a different modifier to hit the leg, arm, head, neck, object being held, ect.? I'm just not sure how I want to handle called shots.
Happy gaming
Do you use critical hits/misses? if so do a called shot as a critical hit with a -8 to hit.
Or, do a siege check with your level and to hit as a bonus (with the -8 for head shot/-4 for appendage) vs HD of opponent plus their to hit bonus. if sucessful, make the victem do a con save where the damage (or max damage) of the hit as the mod. failure of the save loses their appendage or head.
Philotomy Jurament wrote:
IMO, keep the system abstract, accept that it's abstract, and let the DM handle exception cases with situation-specific rulings. For D&D, I think that works better than trying to graft on a general system of called-shot rules.
Ah, but that's exactly what i'm doing. These modifiers are not set in stone, but rather general guidelines for dealing with the situation. To me, this is just another situational modifier just like any other that is listed in the PH.
-Fizz
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Philotomy Jurament
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Some CKs simply assign an ad hoc number needed, such as "sure, you can cut the finger with the vampiric ring on it, if you roll a natural 20." Others want a codified system that factors in the nature of the area (size, toughness, maneuverability, and blah blah) and others just do such things when they're describing the action. In the end, if the game is fun and works for you... whoopie! Success.