Troll Lord Games

SPOILER ALERT for RAPPAN ATHUK!!!

If anyone has played Rappan Athuk, there is a failry unkillable critter called the Dung Monster that is essentially a Killer Mimic that had swallowed a Staff of the Magi. Since the module is 3rd Ed, the creature shows as having an SR of 50 is is immune to just about everything. The PC's got themeselves engulfed in a battle with this fetid beastie (when they should have been running) and were seeing a loyal party member sizzling away in the acid within the monster. Nobody is retreating, but they can't do anything to it, so one player uses an Efreet Bottle to compel the Efreet inside to Wish the creature away and save their friend.

So...the problem is the creature shows the 3rd Ed SR as a ridiculous 50. How would that translate into C&C? AND how would that affect a wish spell acting against it?

Because my evil began to wane as I got sleepy at 1am, I ruled that the Efreet seemingly fulfilled the request (vanishing the yucky beast and leaving behind their friend the Elven Fighter).

Bottom line: I saw that was well played (both on the part of the players and you, the GM).

The 'beastie' is gone... not destroyed and thus someone else's problem now. That's a good and entertaining prospect. Who knows, the party may still have to clean that mess up. As for the Ranger... maybe a bit of therapy after that experience!

The way I see it, a wish is VERY powerful and, typically granted by higher powers (and typically, I see that higher power being the GM -- lol). If it was plot-worthy, and the players backs were against the wall, I'd also allow the wish even though, by the book -- A save and SR would have been applicable.

Moriarty the Red
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Is this in the Rappan Athuk Reloaded set? Cause that's the version I have. I could answer your question better with more specifics.

Although, one question could help. How high does SR go in 3rd ed? If it goes to 100, then your solution is easy. Treat it like a percentage and your 50% SR becomes a 10 SR in C&C.
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Peter Bradley

Thanks for the positive feedback! I believe it is always best to err on the side of the players when in doubt.

The thing I need to manage now, is the Efreet himself and 2 potential wishes later on in the game (the Efreet Bottle was found in the room where they were battling the Dung Monster). The wish as a spell description outlines certain constraints that are more easily defineable from a leveled caster's perspective (9th level effect or lower if they know the equivalent 9th level spell, or 6th level or lower if they don't). When you have supernatural creatures granting this effect like an Efreet, I need to decide how to adjudicate for items like the save challenge and what the creature would know from a spell list perspective. Suggestions here would certainly be helpful.

P.S.

These sorts of gaming quandaries are damn fun to work through!

I only have the 3.0 three module set from Necromancer Games. Not sure what the SR rule difference between 3.0 and 3.5 were since I shipped off my 3.0 collection (among other books) to soldiers in Iraq for Ziggurat Con (I believe it was called).

*pokes through his 3.5 pHB* Hmm... Its something like the old magic resistance from AD&D (d20 + level to beat SR). So, I'd suggest going with my above suggestion and seeing how that works for you?
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

SR of 20+ in d20 becomes "immunity to spells" in C&C. There is no SR needed. A wish would have no effect on the dung beast, directly, but might through secondary, or indirect, functions. For example, wishing the lair of Dungie (while he's in it) was in the plane of fire would transport him and his lair to the plane of fire, since his immunity would not extend to the environment he is in. He would then be stuck there since he has no way to escape on his own, effectively killing him.

I never allow saves or SR versus a wish.

As for what a Wish can do, whatever I'm willing to let it do. After all I am the one who fulfills it.
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serleran wrote:
SR of 20+ in d20 becomes "immunity to spells" in C&C. There is no SR needed. A wish would have no effect on the dung beast, directly, but might through secondary, or indirect, functions. For example, wishing the lair of Dungie (while he's in it) was in the plane of fire would transport him and his lair to the plane of fire, since his immunity would not extend to the environment he is in. He would then be stuck there since he has no way to escape on his own, effectively killing him.

That sounds like a great way around it, but would have taken half the PC's with it (which would have still taught them to run in the first place.....damn completists have to finish every room....). They only know that the creature is gone. It could be in their grandma's living room right now for all they know. Hmmm...maybe in the Overlord's throneroom with a note attached to it saying "To the biggest Shite in the Wilderlands, Compliments of the PC's".....exile in the Demon Empire may start sounding attractive.

I'm thinking that Treebore's approach to wishes is a good one to take when the source is a powerful supernatural entity like an Efreet, Demigod, etc. so I can avoid too much explanation.

The RAW wish in the PHB can apply more for mortal casters of this spell.

I'm waiting for the next session when the party tries to be punks with the remaining wishes and says "I wish all the monsters in Rappan Athuk are dead". Unlikely, since they are jaded old farts who started on OD&D, but they sometimes get sloppy on a late Friday night after a long work week.

While it is true that the source of a wish can be very important (one granted by an evil being such as an efreet, for example, is more likely to have negative consequences) a wish is still not a "carte blanche" thing. It has limits, and when those limits are strained, the intent is more important than then letter... so, if a party wished all monsters in RA were dead, then so be it. Now, make them all dead, but, still monsters. Or, in other words... the party just turned everything undead, including themselves, if they were in RA when the wish was made.

Warping a wish is appropriate when it is excessive.

Hmmm...an undead purple worm on the third level...they would screech, but would only have themselves to blame!

Or you do the classic trick, and shoot them either far into the future or the past ... preferably at the beginning of some cataclysm, forcing them to use the last wish to undo their previous one!