Troll Lord Games

Except, of course, for saves, which would need to be altered or turned into a "skill." Primes do not reflect training alone, which is a common misconception. Two characters, for example, might have the same amount of training, and the same attribute score.... but one of them is "gifted," and is just better, or faster, or whatever. That "extra oomph" is what Prime is all about... it encompasses both raw ability, learned training, and luck. In a way, each is a +2.
In any case... as long as you have fun, do whatever you want to the game.

Oh yeah, forgot about the saves. Which is the precise reason I'm not house ruling anything until I get a better feel for the system.

Personally, I think the prime system is brilliant. It provides an abstract way to represent character strengths without bogging down game play.

The more I have CKed C&C the more I have fallen in love with the Prime system. It has all the way from major effects to many minor effects. I consider it to be very elegant.

Treebore wrote:
The more I have CKed C&C the more I have fallen in love with the Prime system. It has all the way from major effects to many minor effects. I consider it to be very elegant.

Without counting that Primes are useful also for purely roleplaying reasons. For example, in my Dragonlance games I distinguish between humans with a barbaric and civilized background by simply saying that the former need to take a physical Prime, while the latter need to take a mental Prime. That, to me, is a wonderful way to define with just one word a full universe of possibilities.

Regarding skills, I first thought about the 3e skills system, but buying skills point-by-point is simply too time-consuming, and creating high level NPCs takes too much time. This was the first and last time that I tried to use something of 3e.

Then, I tried with the Classic D&D General Skills: simply allow a number of skills choices every number of levels; each skill choice makes the skill a class skill. So, one only must take into account choices instead of ranks, points, etc. Simple and elegant. Skills are tied to attributes.

Finally, I adapted the SAGA system of Hidden Talents. Practically, characters have choices of "broad skills" (the talents), which are not a priori tied to any attribute, but are wide enough that a character can use different attributes depending on the situation. Characters start with 2 or more talents, and can add others (few) as levels progress. Each choice allows to make relevant attribute checks at +2. If a talent is chosen two times, they are done at +4 etc. It seems, from reading on the boards, that my system is similar to Gary's skill bundles, but I am not sure since I do not own Castle Zagyg.

I found this system to be really good, fast, elegant and easily expandable. Currently my system of choice!

Cheers,

Antonio

I didn't like the point buy for skills either. That is why a character gets the whole list for the class. The only "category" I have them keep track of is the knowledge skills. Otherwise, "Is it on the 3E class list for fighter? Yes. OK, then is the relevent stat a Prime? Yes, dex. OK, the TN is 12, +4 for the challenge level, so beat a 16."

Treebore wrote:
I didn't like the point buy for skills either. That is why a character gets the whole list for the class. The only "category" I have them keep track of is the knowledge skills. Otherwise, "Is it on the 3E class list for fighter? Yes. OK, then is the relevent stat a Prime? Yes, dex. OK, the TN is 12, +4 for the challenge level, so beat a 16."

I too played with such option, but some 3e skills are really lame (e.g. listen, spot). They encompass so "basic" abilities that I find quite difficult to consider them skills at all.

I agree regarding knowledge ones, however, since they tend to be quite specific.

Cheers,

Antonio

I still play D&D 3.5 as well as C&C. I have a group that enjoys the 3.5 level of detail (and has a large investment in the books) and I have people who just want to have a good time, have no 3rd edition books, and simply love to game. And then I have my girlfriend, who wants her druidess to do cool stuff without me having to explain why the rules don't support it.....C&C works very well in that scenario!

I still play 3e, I just don't DM it. I have a large investment in 3E books. Over 200 books and modules for 3E. C&C doesn't make those books and modules obsolete and it made my old 2E, 1E, and OD&D stuff come out of retirement on top of it all. It is why I compare C&C to the "One ring to rule them all".

In C&C you can keep a lot of the "detail" of 3E if you want. But I think you'll be surprised at how little you need it, and even more at how little you will miss it after a short while.

But it is definitely a matter of tastes. Either C&C will have, or be able to have added, what you like about gaming, or it won't.

Treebore wrote:
I still play 3e, I just don't DM it. I have a large investment in 3E books. Over 200 books and modules for 3E. C&C doesn't make those books and modules obsolete and it made my old 2E, 1E, and OD&D stuff come out of retirement on top of it all. It is why I compare C&C to the "One ring to rule them all".

I'm finding this out right now myself. I'm about to pull out my old AD&D 2e Monstrous Manual.
What I really like is that I can use all my 3e stuff, yet my AD&D stuff is seeing new life. It's great that all of this material can find new life and come together in one place.

During play, my characters develope a background for their characters. Initially, we know very general things about the character, but then as the campaign and story demands, we add more detail. This also goes along with 'skills'. They justify to me if they should get to add their level, and I tell them by how much (You can add your level to these checks; You add half your levels because, although it is in your background, it was not as large an element as your class, etc)
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