Oooo... glossy...

Post by **finarvyn** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:17 pm

Before I get underway, I should mention that I was a playtester and have been a part of the Castles & Crusades community for quite a while. I have been very supportive of the Trolls and think that they put out a really nice product overall (except that they don't seem to sell C&C t-shirts, which I would buy in an instant...).
However ... I finally got to see a copy of the 3rd printing of teh C&C rulebook in person.

I didn't like it.

1. The font size seems a lot smaller. For many this is no big deal, but I often make purchase decisions for game books and regular reading books based on font size. I'm not as visually challenged as Sir Sieg, but I have terrible vision and really struggle with small print. If this was the first edition that I had seen of C&C, I would have given it a pass without giving it a chance.

2. The book seemed a lot thinner. I'm sure this is a function of #1 above and the "more to a page" philosphy, but the rulebook seemed really thin which made it seem like not such a good deal for the money.

3. I found that the glossy paper was neither an advantage or disadvantage compared to the issues I listed above.

I'm just glad that I have so many copies of the first and second printings of C&C, and if my friends want a copy I'm afraid I will have to suggest e-bay or something.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:22 pm

finarvyn wrote:
1. The font size seems a lot smaller. For many this is no big deal, but I often make purchase decisions for game books and regular reading books based on font size. I'm not as visually challenged as Sir Sieg, but I have terrible vision and really struggle with small print. If this was the first edition that I had seen of C&C, I would have given it a pass without giving it a chance.

Font is the same size as the 2nd printing.

Quote:
2. The book seemed a lot thinner. I'm sure this is a function of #1 above and the "more to a page" philosophy, but the rulebook seemed really thin which made it seem like not such a good deal for the money.

Actually its a function of the paper stock. Which did, indeed, make the book about 1/8th inch thinner. Font and layout remained unchanged from the 2nd printing. ^_^
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Peter Bradley

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:10 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Actually its a function of the paper stock. Which did, indeed, make the book about 1/8th inch thinner. Font and layout remained unchanged from the 2nd printing. ^_^

Yeah, i noticed the book seemed thinner too. Since the dimensions of the book are the same, and the same content appeared on every page, i figured it had to be a result of the new paper.

-Fizz

Post by **finarvyn** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:26 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Font is the same size as the 2nd printing.

Ouch, you're right. I don't like the 2nd printing much, either, I guess.
I always use my 1st printing copy. I picked up some extras on e-bay that were 2nd printing and never really looked at them to realize that the font was smaller in them. I just assumed they would be the same.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:30 am

I think the font size is something like 8.5 - 10 point. Pretty small for aged eyes, but needed to keep the book to 128 pages or so, and thereby, the cost low. Or so I like to tell myself. I've no personal problem with the font (my handwriting is smaller) but I can see where that can be a concern.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:38 am

*smiles* Its kind of funny, the original AD&D books were a 7 point font, but apparently that didn't deter 4 million + sales.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:47 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
*smiles* Its kind of funny, the original AD&D books were a 7 point font, but apparently that didn't deter 4 million + sales.

Very true! Myself, I have no problem with the font-size... though it might also be a question of the font used. Some people find certain types of fonts easier to read than others.

Then again, some of the older gamers might have had slightly better eyesight a couple of decades ago!
Moriarty the Red
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Post by **finarvyn** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:54 am

moriarty777 wrote:
Then again, some of the older gamers might have had slightly better eyesight a couple of decades ago!

I didn't like the font size for AD&D, either. I just assumed that the Troll Lord Games boards weren't the place for that discussion.
Also, as one of those old timers I can state:

1. My vision is getting worse with age.

2. I have never been corrected to 20-20 and every specialist I see tells me that I cannot be. My computers are set to the largest icon size possible. People at work often stop to look at my screen because it doesn't look like theirs.

I never figured out why people with good vision get so defensive when those of us without voice a complaint or concern about font size. I'm glad you can see it just fine. It makes me happy all over.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:33 pm

Even though the font size doesn't bother me in the least, I admit that I think I would like to see a bit larger book. Up the font size accordingly. It's all good.

............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:41 pm

finarvyn wrote:
I didn't like the font size for AD&D, either. I just assumed that the Troll Lord Games boards weren't the place for that discussion.

Why not? Talk about AD&D here to your heart's content. ^_^

Lots of folks mish mash their discussion of various editions into C&C. As long as it doesn't turn into one of those idiotic edition wars have a ball. ^_^
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:13 pm

Personally I hate 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons. War on THAT! J/K

.......................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:25 pm

finarvyn wrote:
I didn't like the font size for AD&D, either. I just assumed that the Troll Lord Games boards weren't the place for that discussion.
Also, as one of those old timers I can state:

1. My vision is getting worse with age.

2. I have never been corrected to 20-20 and every specialist I see tells me that I cannot be. My computers are set to the largest icon size possible. People at work often stop to look at my screen because it doesn't look like theirs.

I never figured out why people with good vision get so defensive when those of us without voice a complaint or concern about font size. I'm glad you can see it just fine. It makes me happy all over.

It's one of those weird things... my vision is a far cry from being perfect though. I have to say I'm fortunate that my glasses allow for near-perfect 20/20 vision... but boy oh boy -- I'm blind without them.
I'm technically 'near-sighted' (thus cannot see things at a distance) but without my glasses, I couldn't see what I'm typing now and I really have to put the PHB close to my face to read it (I just tried it and it kinda surprised me). That being said, I have noticed that I have an easier time with certain smaller fonts than others when reading without my glasses.

The fact that my own vision has also degraded dramatically over the past 20 years prompted my initial comment and though I was trying to be a smart ass... I wasn't trying to be a malicious one!
Moriarty the Red
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Post by **finarvyn** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:08 am

moriarty777 wrote:
though I was trying to be a smart ass... I wasn't trying to be a malicious one!

My pappy always taught me that it was better to be a smart ass than a dumb ass. (I assume that this would apply to malicious or otherwise.)
And I certainly don't mean to be a pain. Sometimes when I get tired I get grumpy, and my vision makes things worse before they get better. I've given up on buying most paperback books and buy hardbacks or trade paper instead -- just to get the larger font size. That's also part of why I like PDF files 'cuz I can blow 'em up on my computer for ease of reading.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:19 am

I can blow things up from my computer too. Ahh, the joys of having a system of WMD at my disposital.

slimykuotoan · Post by **slimykuotoan** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:08 am

I must say, I'm not a fan of the glossy pages; I can't make notes on them and later erase, etc.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:23 pm

W00T!

Got my 3rd print PH today and it looks great. While I have a slight preference for the 1st print font and like the rougher paper a little better, this stock is fine for me. In fact, it might be a trick of the eye/lighting but it seems some of the artwork is crisper/sharper on the glossy paper.

It should be interesting to see which paper holds up better, after several years of usage.

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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:34 pm

With the new sale, I just ordered up new PHB 2rd printings and M&T 2nd printing for my use. I'm going to retire the older printings and put them on the collector's shelf.

However, Rhu puts up a interesting question; will glossy paper hold up better then the previous edition? Hmm. Let us see then.

.....................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

zomben · Post by **zomben** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:36 pm

Gar!

I ordered the 3rd print of the PHB, and the 2nd of M&T last week. They showed up the other night and I got the wrong M&T! The online store is already shipping me the right one, so no big deal, but I was looking forward to having the latest and greatest already.

In other news, I'm taking my 2nd print PHB, and my 1st print M&T and mailing them to a couple pals across the country who're interested in the game. Figure I'll spread the wealth, while I'm upgrading.

For what it's worth, I really like the gloss paper. It takes the printer's ink much better, and makes the artwork really pop out. The few new illustrations are nice, as well.

Troll Lord Games

Oooo... glossy...

Finally saw 3rd printing rulebook

Re: Finally saw 3rd printing rulebook

Re: Finally saw 3rd printing rulebook

Re: Finally saw 3rd printing rulebook