About the starting hit points and optional rules...

JeePee · Post by **JeePee** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:03 am

Hi,

I'm searching the rule about the starting hit points for character lvl 1.

I think that the lvl 1 character start adventure with the max of hit dice...

Warrior -> d10 -> starting hit points 10

Barbare -> d12 -> 12

It's enough for the fighting classes but for the mage or assassin, the hit dice is d6. That seems weakness....

Have you some optional rules for it ?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:37 am

I've seen some house rules where CK's give an extra 10 or 20 HP's at first level only.
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JeePee · Post by **JeePee** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:40 am

An other idea is to add one bonus hit dice.

For example, the barbare will have 12+1d12, assassin 6+1d6, mage 6+1d6...

Geron Raveneye · Post by **Geron Raveneye** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:17 am

Huh, did I miss something in the PHB? Could somebody point me to the page where it says that 1st level characters get full Hit Points? Because I can't find it myself, apparently. So far, I was under the impression that HP were rolled at 1st level.

JeePee · Post by **JeePee** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:23 am

The max of hit dice for the first lvl is an old rule of D&D I think.

Beyondthebreach · Post by **Beyondthebreach** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:32 am

You can always give them "0" level hp as well. That is, their 1st level HP is in addition to the HP they had as a "0" level character or ordinary person. So everyone starts with d6 hp (or d4 if you prefer) just for "being alive" plus the HD for their class.

This always seemed a fair way to boost HP at first level (plus I would give MAX HP as well). It also makes sense, to me anyway . . .

Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:26 am

Geron Raveneye wrote:
Huh, did I miss something in the PHB? Could somebody point me to the page where it says that 1st level characters get full Hit Points? Because I can't find it myself, apparently. So far, I was under the impression that HP were rolled at 1st level.

You can do it anyway you want.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:30 am

Sometimes I use the Arduin way. Starting HP = Con score + Max HD. Other times, I use the Gamma World way: Starting HP = Con score # of HD (but, the PC does not get more HP for 10 levels, and thereafter only gains their flat rate.) But, most times I just say: roll it!

Depends on the flavor of the game, and whether I want PCs to die often.

Coleston the Cavalier · Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:39 am

Hey JeePee, good to see you back at the boards!

-John
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SavageRobby · Post by **SavageRobby** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:12 pm

I don't think max HP at 1st level is in the PHB. I don't recall seeing it. I don't think its in the 1e PHB or DMG, or any of the Basic sets, either. But it is one of the most ancient house rules that I know of.

I use it in my games. I waffle about adding additional HP at first level. I like the idea of Max HP + 1HD (rolled) at first level, but that gives an extra major advantage to high HD-types (fighters, monks, etc). If anything, I've been tossing around the idea of giving every PC (and classed NPCs) an extra 4 HP or so to reflect their life as a commoner, and then give them the max HP at 1st level on top of that. That balances a little bit better.

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:20 pm

SavageRobby wrote:
I don't think max HP at 1st level is in the PHB. I don't recall seeing it. I don't think its in the 1e PHB or DMG, or any of the Basic sets, either. But it is one of the most ancient house rules that I know of.

I think that is correct. 1st Ed AD&D did not include it. Unearthed arcana had rules for starting minimums (half of max value i think). It's 3E where you start with the maximum.

I prefer not to use max values at 1st level. I like the variability that the roll provides. That said, it doesn't seem appropriate for a barbarian to start with 1 hit point. If a player doesn't like his starting total, i'll let him roll again, but he has to keep the second roll.

-Fizz

Geron Raveneye · Post by **Geron Raveneye** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:08 pm

Heh, I know I can "do it any way I want"...I also know it's one of the widest spread houserules, and that 3E made it into an official rule. I simply had this discussion with a friend recently, who claimed (pretty loudly, too) that this was an official rule in C&C as well. This made me check up the PHB to see if I had missed something, and seeing it being claimed here as well really threw me off-track. So I thought I'd ask. (He also claimed C&C had no way to interrupt a spellcaster except announcing to wait for a casting attempt for an attack, since there are no AoO anymore...which is just as much rubbish. *sigh*)

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:45 pm

Geron Raveneye wrote:
(He also claimed C&C had no way to interrupt a spellcaster except announcing to wait for a casting attempt for an attack, since there are no AoO anymore...which is just as much rubbish. *sigh*)

Hmmm... he seems to be under the impression that if it's not in the rules, you can't do it. C&C actually operates on a different basis. There is essentially nothing you can't try to do.

I hope you are able to C&C-ize him.
-Fizz

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:14 pm

hehehe...

I've always given max hp at first level... in my experience, the players and their respective characters need all the help they can get!

However, only the 3.x editions of D&D seem to have it as an actual rule.

Moriarty the Red
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ceallach66 · Post by **ceallach66** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:24 pm

I'm just getting started, but I was planning to give 1st level the max HD. For all subsequent levels, I plan to offer the option to either roll in front of the CK, or take 1/2 max HD + 1 (so a d6 Rogue would get 4 hp). If they choose to roll, though, they have to accept the result...

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:57 pm

ceallach66 wrote:
I'm just getting started, but I was planning to give 1st level the max HD. For all subsequent levels, I plan to offer the option to either roll in front of the CK, or take 1/2 max HD + 1 (so a d6 Rogue would get 4 hp). If they choose to roll, though, they have to accept the result...

That's a pretty good idea though it would certainly be in a Wizard's best interest to take the 1/2 max HD +1 option every time... I mean a guaranteed 3 hp out of a possible 4 is pretty damned good!

Moriarty the Red
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ceallach66 · Post by **ceallach66** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:05 pm

moriarty777 wrote:
That's a pretty good idea though it would certainly be in a Wizard's best interest to take the 1/2 max HD +1 option every time... I mean a guaranteed 3 hp out of a possible 4 is pretty damned good!

Moriarty the Red

Yeah, I thought that would give the lower d4 and d6 classes a bit of a leg up. I could also just do a straight 1/2 HD I suppose (2 out of 4 or even 6 out of 12 still isn't too bad)...

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:05 pm

My house rules allow for re-rolls for low numbers. reroll if a:

1 on d4

1-2 on a d6 and d8

1-3 on d10

1-4 on a d12

So the HP definitely tends to be on the high side, which is fine by me.

I even had one DM, I think back in 1E days, or early 2E, who had you earn your full HP. He had it divided over your XP progression for the next level, so when you got that percentage of the way to your next level, you gained an HP. You got CON bonuses when you achieved the next level.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:16 pm

ceallach66 wrote:
Yeah, I thought that would give the lower d4 and d6 classes a bit of a leg up. I could also just do a straight 1/2 HD I suppose (2 out of 4 or even 6 out of 12 still isn't too bad)...

It would certainly give classes with d6 or lower a definite leg up! But if you decided with a straight 1/2 HD... you still have to consider that there is only a 25% chance that a wizard will get worse than 1/2 the HD. As a player, given a choice between rolling a d4 or just settle for a '2', I'd chance the roll every time. The 1/2 HD + 1 does work and let's face it, even if it does give the wizard an edge for hit points, they tend to need all the hp they can get!

As an alternative though, this is something I've seen done in a friend's campaign:

Beyond level 1, roll your character's HD but you get a minimum of 1/2 the HD if you roll below it.

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ceallach66 · Post by **ceallach66** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:56 pm

moriarty777 wrote:
But if you decided with a straight 1/2 HD... you still have to consider that there is only a 25% chance that a wizard will get worse than 1/2 the HD. As a player, given a choice between rolling a d4 or just settle for a '2', I'd chance the roll every time. The 1/2 HD + 1 does work and let's face it, even if it does give the wizard an edge for hit points, they tend to need all the hp they can get!

Good point.