Calculating Monster XP

[Danny F]

After Wizards of the Coast announced 4E, I decided to burn my DM hat and replace it with a brand new CK hat. Please forgive me if my question is stupid or redundant:

When calculating monster XP, are spell-like abilities cumulative? In other words, suppose I'm creating a monster that has three 1st-level spell-like abilities. Do I add the value from the Type I column to the base value one time or do I add it to the base value three times?

Thanks,

Danny F

[gideon_thorne]

Its cumulative.
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Peter Bradley

[Tadhg]

Welcome to the Crusade, Danny F.

Hope you enjoy the game!
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[serleran]

Remember: no ability not used is worth anything.... why award the party for a challenge they did not overcome?

[moriarty777]

Danny F wrote:
After Wizards of the Coast announced 4E, I decided to burn my DM hat and replace it with a brand new CK hat. Please forgive me if my question is stupid or redundant...

We like questions!

Welcome to the Crusade!

Moriarty the Red
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[DangerDwarf]

serleran wrote:
Remember: no ability not used is worth anything.... why award the party for a challenge they did not overcome?

I dislike that simply due to the fact as a CK you will have to refigure XP for every single encounter. Its not practical.

"Ok, that encounter with the werebears...how many used their hug ability? Was it 2 or 3?"

Also, what about the poor goblin sap who is running down the hill towards the part and catches an arrow to his throat. He never even got to use a single attack. Since that is his "ability" does the party not get XP for him either?

XP values should be based on a creatures potential. Parties should not be penalized for taking out a creature before it has a chance to unload all of its tricks.

They did overcome the ability, even if the creature never got to use it, by dispatching the threat before it had a chance to "rawk their wurld" with it

[moriarty777]

serleran wrote:
Remember: no ability not used is worth anything.... why award the party for a challenge they did not overcome?

Isn't that like saying... well since the monster didn't hit you once (and thus wasn't really a challenge), I'm docking the XP?
I get what you're saying but since I view the XP for monsters are not massive to begin with, I don't really have a problem with giving full XP. Besides, there are times where I may pull my punch a bit on the PCs for the sake of fun and story.

Moriarty the Red
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[Stuie]

moriarty777 wrote:
Isn't that like saying... well since the monster didn't hit you once (and thus wasn't really a challenge), I'm docking the XP?

Don't forget to deduct XP if the players used weapons/armor.
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[kaomera]

Stuie wrote:
Don't forget to deduct XP if the players used weapons/armor.

Half XP if they didn't have to walk uphill to the encounter...

(wait... for... it...)

Both ways...

Through the Lake of Rats.

Seriously, tho, if it has three 1st-level spell abilities, are they all going to be useful? Obviously if it can use Magic Missile, Shield, and Sleep at will that's worth 3 extra doses of XP. Especially if it can use multiple effects at once. But if it can use Curse Water, Feather Fall, and Read Magic each once per day then I'd tend to lump them all into one I award. Recalculating for each actual encounter is more accurate, but I don't think it's enough to be worth the bother.
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[serleran]

Quote:
Isn't that like saying... well since the monster didn't hit you once (and thus wasn't really a challenge), I'm docking the XP?

No. Its saying: if the monster never fought, at all, and didn't even try to, its not worth anything. If, for example, your badass party just walks up and the beats surrenders... I award nothing (well, maybe a tiny fraction of the true value.)

Would you award the multiple thousands for a 18th level wizard BBEG who never cast a single spell in a fight? I doubt it.

It only takes one time for the "ability" to be tried, and full value gets earned...

But, whatever, agree with it or not. The original intent was to not have a monster give XP for doing the exact opposite of its name.

Also, it is the CKs duty to work all this out beforehand. I agree it can be cumbersome, but how many award XP every session? Besides, its not hard to wing ad hoc adjustments... give them the full Xp, but say "ok, but it wasn't as hard as it could have been... you all rolled 4756874396 natural 20s in a row! You get 10% of that, but an extra 50000 for sheer luck."

[DangerDwarf]

serleran wrote:
Also, it is the CKs duty to work all this out beforehand. I agree it can be cumbersome, but how many award XP every session?

I award XP at the end of every session and I can't work that out before hand. I don't know if the diabolical mage is going to cast 3 spells before he bites it or if he empties his arsenal.

What about the Night Hag and her many many spell-like abilities. What if she doesn't fire off a ray of enfeeblement or make use of her polymorph ability?

Are those abilities already figured into her XP amount in the book? And I need to lower it because she didn't use them?

That method just doesn't work. At least not keeping with the C&C goal of being a quick, fast paced system without the bog down of d20.

Quote:
Would you award the multiple thousands for a 18th level wizard BBEG who never cast a single spell in a fight? I doubt it.

If the party actually managed to eliminate the Big Bad Evil Guy (especially a wizard!) without him getting a chance to fire of a single spell it would be because of their planning and tactics. Should the players be awarded full value of that because of the tactical route they took? Ayup.

[serleran]

Heh, I think y'all are misunderstanding, but that's fine. Really doesn't matter, at the end of the day.

I don't know why I get in these arguments, really, seeing as I've not awarded Xp for some 25 years or so... so, just ignore what I've said.

[Dristram]

As a side note, at one point, I would award double XP the first time the party encountered a particular monster and normal XP after that.

[DangerDwarf]

Dristram wrote:
As a side note, at one point, I would award double XP the first time the party encountered a particular monster and normal XP after that.

I hear in 4e that you'll get less XP every time you kill a particular monster. The R&D department states its to discourage spawn camping.

[moriarty777]

serleran wrote:
Heh, I think y'all are misunderstanding, but that's fine. Really doesn't matter, at the end of the day.

I don't know why I get in these arguments, really, seeing as I've not awarded Xp for some 25 years or so... so, just ignore what I've said.

I'm just having a bit of fun!
M
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Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

[DangerDwarf]

One thing that I've been doing for spell casting critters is using the M&T table.

If a creature can utilize 1st - 3rd level spells, he gets a Special I. Not one for every spell he can cast or memorize, just a single Special I.

Able to cast spells up to 5th level? A Special I (For spells of level 1-3) and a Special II (for levels 4&5).

Works pretty decent without over inflating the XP value. That makes the 1HD kobold who can cast magic missle be a 7 +1 XP value as opposed to a 105 +1 (more than an ogre!) XP value.

My only problem with the table is sometimes it takes me a little while to decide which Special category an ability will fall into, which is no fault of the table.

[Dangersaurus]

DangerDwarf wrote:
One thing that I've been doing for spell casting critters is using the M&T table.

If a creature can utilize 1st - 3rd level spells, he gets a Special I. Not one for every spell he can cast or memorize, just a single Special I.

Able to cast spells up to 5th level? A Special I (For spells of level 1-3) and a Special II (for levels 4&5).

Works pretty decent without over inflating the XP value. That makes the 1HD kobold who can cast magic missle be a 7 +1 XP value as opposed to a 105 +1 (more than an ogre!) XP value.

My only problem with the table is sometimes it takes me a little while to decide which Special category an ability will fall into, which is no fault of the table.

Ah, you answered me there before I could talk about it here: I have a couple NPCs over on the NPC's Buzo Etc. thread of varying levels - I haven't done xp on them, because so far it hasn't mattered. The latest one though interested me because it's a little more complex. He's a dual-classed dwarven rogue/illusionist with a metric ton of magic loot, sort of a mordrisgwar (sp?) mixed with EGG's OBmi.

[DangerDwarf]

Most of the time, I stat out NPC's (even ones with classes) as a M&T write up simply for ease of XP value determination.

However, when running modules for different systems, I don't go through that bother. For multiclass characters I usually Divide the higher level by two then add that number to the lower level. Thats the HD worth I use for XP figuring. Not an exact science but its close enough that nobody notices.

[Dangersaurus]

DangerDwarf wrote:
Most of the time, I stat out NPC's (even ones with classes) as a M&T write up simply for ease of XP value determination.

That's what I was going for in the format I used. Something close to a M&T format, similar but different to the way they did it in 1e Deities & Demigods

Quote:
However, when running modules for different systems, I don't go through that bother. For multiclass characters I usually Divide the higher level by two then add that number to the lower level. Thats the HD worth I use for XP figuring. Not an exact science but its close enough that nobody notices.

With the Ibmo example it works out to 8HD either way.