Converting Wilderlands of High Fantasy to C&C?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:26 pm

A very valid warning, HP's are on a very different scale for 3E than C&C, especially at higher levels, so that difference of scale definitely needs to be taken into account when deciding what HP the creature or character is to have in C&C versus a 3E game.

I wasn't bringing up the difference betwen the systems because my point was just about not taking HP too seriously, depending on how a given scenario plays out.

For a system versus system power scale, that brings in a whole ton of different things to consider.

sieg · Post by **sieg** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:41 pm

Exactly Treebore, I think we were on the same page and I just didn't get it.
Have you looked through the whole Wilderlands set? Are the (overall) hp a problem or was the bear thing just a unique sitch?
_________________
Always remember, as a first principle of all D&D: playing BtB is not now, never was and never will be old school.- Tim Kask, Dragonsfoot

Ariddrake · Post by **Ariddrake** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:44 am

I'm starting a campaign using the Wilderlands but how would you convert the following classes to C&C

Witch

Amazon

Sage

Alchemist

Any help would be great. Thanks.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:00 am

Witch- Druid type with emphasis on herb lore background checks.
Amazon- Fighters with nice round bumpy bits. Or one missing depending on ones desire for accuracy.
Sage- Mage with a role played folk lore and history background
Alchemist- Mage with lots of chemicals and that burnt clothing exploded look.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:05 am

Witch: Use the wizard as the base, but change the spell list to include more enchantment / charm effects, in addition to illusions. Modify the rules for item creation, especially for those of potion brewing, to allow a witch to start at 5th or 7th level. Everything else is the same.

Amazon: female ranger. Not much else special to them, unless they've been severely tweaked in d20, and made into something they're not.

Sage: Allow the character to select a number of specialties equal to their Intelligence modifier. Anytime a question concerning one of these areas of knowledge is needing an answer, allo the sage a check against the rarity of knowing, with a +0 (or lower) for very common, +6 for uncommon, +12 for rare, or +20 for "lost lore." They can use a library to gain a bonus based on the usefulness of the library, at a +0 for "scant resources," +2 for "limited resources," +6 for "well-stocked," +10 for "superb resources," and +15 for "beyond compare." (Note, you can change the words and values; I'm just throwing out a means to do the class.) They are otherwise like wizards, except they lose spellcasting, replacing it with the legend lore and spell use abilities of bard and rogue, as well as having the ability to identify magic items as an innate ability. As for knowledge specialties.. just use the 3.X Knowledge skill as a guide.

Alchemist: a wizard who cannot cast spells, but can make magic items instead, reducing the level requirements for all such things by 3 levels. They can identify potions.

Without looking at the Player's Guide to the Wilderlands, or whatever it is, those are my first, immediate, ideas on what to do. I guarantee it is not hard to convert the classes.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:35 am

THE PG to the WL has an Amazon and Sage write up that a C&C conversion could be based on. Anyone have the Dragon mags on CD? There are old Alchemists and witch write-ups in there. Even though I think Ser's Witch would do the job just fine.

Ooh! I have that "Compleat Alchemist" book from the 1E days. Now would be a darn good time to see about making that into a C&C class. For you too, if you have it.

Ariddrake · Post by **Ariddrake** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:36 pm

I was considering something like..

Amazon

Hit Dice d10

Prime Attribute Strength

Alignment Any

weapons Any

Armor Amazon Armor

Special Abilites: Fast Movement (1st lvl), Battle dancer (2nd lvl), Woman warrior (1st lvl), Animal companion (6th lvl i.e. large cat)

XP ?

How does Battle dancer and Woman warrior work I don't know yet.

The other classes especially sage and Alchemist I'm having trouble with

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:58 pm

What kind of Alchemist do you want? Do you want a wizard type that does everything via potions, powders, ointments, and elixirs? Or do you want a spellcasting wizard that is just good at making alchemical things? Or are you looking for some other flavor?

Now if it is the first type I would treat them pretty much as a wizard and any spell that can target others would be a potion or a powder, depending on which would work better with the area of effect. Spells that target self make into a salve/ointment, particularly potent spells require to be elixirs or powders with high material costs.

The main drawback for an Alchemist would be not only would they have a book (with as many hidden copies as possible) of formulae, but they would also have to build up a stockpile of potions, ointments, powders, and such before they go on adventures. Basically a mage who casts everything from premade scrolls, for all intents and purposes.

The big advantage would be no chance of spell failure due to just damage. They would have to be grappled or the potion would have to be specifically targeted, or some such measures in order to disrupt an alchemist. You could even make them more difficult to counter with dispel magic for various reasons.

Those are my thoughts, anyways. Very similiar idea to my Runemark, actually.

Ariddrake · Post by **Ariddrake** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:06 pm

The roles that came to mind about the sage and the alchemist were more of a NPC, where they were funtional but would be more information and magic brokers. The Amazon and witch fit better with actual adventurers. I think a little PDF with these classes and the special qualities of the different wilderland races might be something worth putting together. This wouldn't be stepping on trolllord or necromancers/judges toes if this was something made for free floating around would it?

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:08 pm

Ariddrake wrote:
The roles that came to mind about the sage and the alchemist were more of a NPC, where they were funtional but would be more information and magic brokers. The Amazon and witch fit better with actual adventurers. I think a little PDF with these classes and the special qualities of the different wilderland races might be something worth putting together. This wouldn't be stepping on trolllord or necromancers/judges toes if this was something made for free floating around would it?

Some folks have been doing C&C conversion of Necro products. Talk to the dudes over there. One, a number of folks would be willing to help, i bet, and I'm sure Necro at least, and TLG would likely host the pdf file.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:08 pm

If they are NPCs, you don't need "rules," for them. You just have them do whatever the story/adventure needs, and what you feel they could do.

Ariddrake · Post by **Ariddrake** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:26 pm

serleran I agree with you that they could be just written up to serve the story. I'll probably work on it this weekend. Thanks for everybody's input.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:00 pm

There is a very good Witch class in the Colin Sez' download, in the C&C section at Dragonsfoot. (I don't know how well it matches the Wilderlands version.)

I was considering an Alchemist class for my campaign. My thoughts were to let him learn potion formula's much the same way a wizard learns spells. He would start with X number, then each time he gains a level he gains another formula. Of course he could always find or purchase other formulas. I would probably allow a few low level spells, also spread out across the levels. The potions would be potions however, not spells in a bottle (as in 3E). Some potions and such will have similar effect, but it will not be potion of magic missile, fireball potions etc.
_________________
Never throw rocks at a man with a Vorpal Sword!

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:07 pm

Maliki wrote:
There is a very good Witch class in the Colin Sez' download, in the C&C section at Dragonsfoot. (I don't know how well it matches the Wilderlands version.)

I was considering an Alchemist class for my campaign. My thoughts were to let him learn potion formula's much the same way a wizard learns spells. He would start with X number, then each time he gains a level he gains another formula. Of course he could always find or purchase other formulas. I would probably allow a few low level spells, also spread out across the levels. The potions would be potions however, not spells in a bottle (as in 3E). Some potions and such will have similar effect, but it will not be potion of magic missile, fireball potions etc.

That's how it works in Darkness & Dread, a nice d20 (eh) book about dark fantasy. Now it is sold in pdf at about 4$ on drivethrurpg. I strongly recommend it!

Cheers,

Antonio

Ariddrake · Post by **Ariddrake** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:46 am

I converted the amazon class from the Wilderlands and am now working on the witch class and races. Let me know what you think. The PDF is located at
www.edgewoodgames.com

IE works O.K. with it but I'm having trouble with firefox.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:56 am

Ariddrake wrote:
I converted the amazon class from the Wilderlands and am now working on the witch class and races. Let me know what you think. The PDF is located at
www.edgewoodgames.com

IE works O.K. with it but I'm having trouble with firefox.

I can view it fine with FF. Amazon looks good. Serleran has a great version from Diablo II, which has much more in the way of magical abilities. But it's good to have another version that is not so powerful, as many CK's don't want too much magic in their worlds.

Not being that familiar with the Wilderlands, what's the magic level?

Rhu.
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Ariddrake · Post by **Ariddrake** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:03 am

I perceive the wilderlands as more of a lower magic setting ala conan or Lankmar especially when compared to Faerun. The castle keepers guide might have more specific details of creating classes I just tried to keep it relative to the other C&C classes and what was in the Wilderlands guide.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:31 am

WL does tend to the low magic setting, but there is nothing "official" saying what the magic level has to be. High would be good since there are demonlands to the south, but if the DM never intends to use the demons then low magic will definitely work.

After all, "officially" the WL's weather, etc... is controlled by ancient high tech machines, if the CK wants to ever exploit that angle, or have the machines fail, or whatever devious idea comes to mind.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:17 pm

Ariddrake wrote:
I converted the amazon class from the Wilderlands and am now working on the witch class and races. Let me know what you think. The PDF is located at
www.edgewoodgames.com

IE works O.K. with it but I'm having trouble with firefox.

Looks like a solid conversion, I havn't looked at my WL stuff for a while, but it seems fairly balanced.
_________________
Never throw rocks at a man with a Vorpal Sword!

Ariddrake · Post by **Ariddrake** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:44 pm

I just finished converting the witch class from the wilderlands to C&C. Its posted at www.edgewoodgames.com

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:02 pm

They both look good to me. I don't think the battle dancer ability will be too powerful, I would better explain that battle Prescience is an invoked ability for clarity.

I like the witches spell list and the ebb and flow of her powers, even though I think you should go more into how it effects her normal spells. Being able to fly at will during her peak may be a bit much, even with her not flying at all during her low. Being at 9th level may work OK, but I would be leary of it as a DM.

You may also want to consider adding poisons and the ability to make them.

Good stuff. I copied it.

Ariddrake · Post by **Ariddrake** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:15 pm

The witch's spell list was shorted compared to what is in the wilderlands guide. XP might not be exactly right maybe it could be a little lower at first level. I will make that change to the amazon's combat prescience description. Thanks.

FTracer · Post by **FTracer** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:10 pm

Ariddrake, do you have a direct link to those classes? I tried both Firefox & IE 7 and I don't see anything on your site. Just the word edgewoodgames.

Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:04 pm

FTracer wrote:
Ariddrake, do you have a direct link to those classes? I tried both browsers and I don't see anything on your site. Just the word edgewoodgames.

Same here (Safari 2.0.4 on Max OS X 10.4.10).

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:18 pm

Ariddrake wrote:
I just finished converting the witch class from the wilderlands to C&C. Its posted at www.edgewoodgames.com

Nice site bit all I get is the title and nothing else.
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:56 am

M
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:14 am

Did anybody copy those back then?

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:22 pm

[/quote]

Nice site bit all I get is the title and nothing else.

[/quote]

Me to.

Are the conversions hung anywhere else?
_________________
"And so I am become a knight of the Kingdom of Dreams and Shadows!" - Mark Twain

Forgive all spelling errors.

Knight Errant & Humble C&C Society Contributor
C&C Society

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:02 pm

I do have a PDF of an Amazon and a Witch for WL, I think it may be this download. I have already sent it to Philotomy, and two other board members, and it is a conversion fro C&C. So just PM me with your addresses and I'll e-mail you the PDF's.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:01 am

PM sent