My Armor List

Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:20 pm

Since I decided not to use encumbrance rules and apply "common sense" in that matter, I found that lots of armors in the list had no reason for existing, since weights were no longer an issue. I also found there were too many armours that gave the same bonuses and the only diference was in price. Players were always buying the cheaper ones of course.

So, I dediced to have one armor per AC value, with the exception of the scale mail wich is a cheap alternative for having AC +4. You may also note that there is no Hide armor. That's because I permit barbarians to craft them. For every HD of the creature's pelt, that's +1 AC (Jackal pelt armour +1, wolf pelt armour +2, etc.), up to a max of +3 for the armor being light, and +4 for medium armor.

I also made Full Plate AC +9 just like in AD&D 2e.

The list will need to be expanded once you start gaming in a world with technological disparities (like WL for example), but for a classic and generic setting these work just ok.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:55 pm

Good list. I've been contemplating adding the old UA Full Plate and Field Plate back into my games. I always liked thsoe that way, for whatever reason.
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Craig C · Post by **Craig C** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:10 pm

I like it, consider it borrowed.

My main peeve with C&C armours is the old chain mail AC +5 rubbish, in my campaign it is Chain mail AC 15 etc, not so confusing when you add a magical +2 (chain mail +2) to the armour. It's a minor quibble but something in newer editions that still bugs me!

Craig

Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:49 pm

I have reworked the list a bit. Encumbrace works like OD&D - Humans in light armour move at 12'', humans in heavy armour at 9'', humans in plate armour at 6''.

Splint Mail though not plate armor, belongs to that familty in order to offer a cheap but cumbersome alternative to banded mail. Note that banded mail is no usable by rangers or barbarians.

I made all shields just shields, getting rid of wooden or steel differences.

I'm thinking about...

Heavy Armour reduces Dex bonus by 1 (min. 0)

Plate Armour reduced Dex bonus by 2 (min. 0)

Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:23 pm

I think I'll reduce shield prices a bit...

imweasel · Post by **imweasel** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:40 pm

Zulgyan wrote:
Since I decided not to use encumbrance rules and apply "common sense" in that matter, I found that lots of armors in the list had no reason for existing, since weights were no longer an issue. I also found there were too many armours that gave the same bonuses and the only diference was in price. Players were always buying the cheaper ones of course.

So, I dediced to have one armor per AC value, with the exception of the scale mail wich is a cheap alternative for having AC +4. You may also note that there is no Hide armor. That's because I permit barbarians to craft them. For every HD of the creature's pelt, that's +1 AC (Jackal pelt armour +1, wolf pelt armour +2, etc.), up to a max of +3 for the armor being light, and +4 for medium armor.

I also made Full Plate AC +9 just like in AD&D 2e.

The list will need to be expanded once you start gaming in a world with technological disparities (like WL for example), but for a classic and generic setting these work just ok.

Gonna so steal this.
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imweasel · Post by **imweasel** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:41 pm

Zulgyan wrote:
I think I'll reduce shield prices a bit...

Please include chain shirt, various breastplates and hauberks!
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:29 pm

I'll be doing something similar in my next campaign, along with a smaller selection of weapons as well.
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Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:31 pm

i'm working on weapons right now

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:52 pm

Zulgyan wrote:
I have reworked the list a bit. Encumbrace works like OD&D - Humans in light armour move at 12'', humans in heavy armour at 9'', humans in plate armour at 6''.

I've adopted a similar approach... but linked the reduced movement to automatic encumbrance penalties.

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:58 pm

Zulgyan wrote:
i'm working on weapons right now

Do these work for you? They're charts that I use in my game.

Oops... I'll move this to your separate "Weapon" thread.

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:20 pm

I'm curious, what effect (if any) do larger shield have on the wielders? I know btb a bigger shield will provide cover from more foes, but do you include any drawback to carrying a large shield or pavis v. a buckler other than price?

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:36 pm

I'd love to know how someone carries a pavise.

Maybe if they laid on it, and two others carried them....

Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:59 pm

Buckler: The AC bonus is applicable against one attack in a round. It can be used with bows and crossbows at no penalty. It can be used with large weapons or while performing two-weapon fight, but confers a -1 penalty to attacks rolls.
Small Shield: The AC bonus is applicable against one foe in a round. The wilder hand can still carry small items such as a torch.
Medium Shield: The AC bonus is applicable against two foes in a round.

The wilder hand can still carry small items such as a torch.
Large Shield: The AC bonus is applicable against three foes in a round.

The shield hand can not be used for other purposes.
Pavis: Made to be rested on the ground and fired over, like a mobile wall. The AC bonus applies to all foes in front of the shield. AC bonus can not benefit those who attack in melee.

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:57 pm

Zulgyan wrote:
Buckler: The AC bonus is applicable against one attack in a round. It can be used with bows and crossbows at no penalty. It can be used with large weapons or while performing two-weapon fight, but confers a -1 penalty to attacks rolls.

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine, so feel feel to ignore. This is a fantasy game after all, NOT reality. You can't hold anything in your hand when using a buckler, because the buckler is in your hand.

Wikipedia wrote:
A buckler (French bouclier 'shield', from old French bocle, boucle 'boss') is a small shield gripped in the fist -- it was generally used as a companion weapon in hand-to-hand combat during the Middle Ages, as its size made it poor protection against missile weapons (e.g., arrows) but useful in deflecting the blow of an opponent's sword or mace.

(emphasis mine)

At some point (I'm not sure when) gamers apparently decided a buckler was strapped to the arm and left the hand free. It's fine to play it that way if you like, but in the real world that's not how they worked. You can see a pic of bucklers in use here: http://www.swordacademy.com/home/buckler02.big.jpg

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:11 pm

Yeah, a Pavis is to be used and moved by a team. If you want to see a Pavis in use play Age of Empires 3. One of the indian tribes (Iroqouis?) use a Pavis.
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Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:14 am

A little re-working:

Turanil · Post by **Turanil** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:06 am

About plate armors inducing penalties to dexterity and movement, let me just post this wiki info on amors where it says:

Quote:
"While it looks heavy, a full plate armour set could be as light as only 20 kg (45 pounds) if well made of tempered steel. This is less than the weight of modern combat gear of an infantry soldier, and the weight is better distributed. The weight was so well spread over the body that a fit man could run, or jump into his saddle. Modern re-enactment activity has proven it is even possible to swim in armour. It is possible for a fit and trained man in armour to run after and catch an unarmoured archer. The notion it was necessary to lift a fully armed knight onto his horse with the help of pulleys is a myth."

As far as I am concerned as a CK, I will turn this info into a houserule: Fighters and Knights (no other class) who wear masterwork or magical plate armor do not suffer penalties to their ability checks, movement and AC for wearing plate armor.
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phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:41 pm

Turanil wrote:
About plate armors inducing penalties to dexterity and movement, let me just post this wiki info on amors where it says:

As far as I am concerned as a CK, I will turn this info into a houserule: Fighters and Knights (no other class) who wear masterwork or magical plate armor do not suffer penalties to their ability checks, movement and AC for wearing plate armor.

I think this is why some people didn't mind that older editions of D&D didn't make armor restricting, except for it's natural weight (I think Full Plate was 50 or 60lbs, which would be too much weight for most people that were not Warriors, since you'd need at least a 17 Strength to pack that around along with all your other equipment without taking encumbrance penalities).

Works for me, either you can Carry it, or you Can't.
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Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:29 pm

If I remember correctly, the scots would hold a dirk in their left hand along with the buckler. I may be wrong though
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