Troll Lord Games

Hi there,

I'm new.
I have read someof the comments regarding the C&CSystem as well as have given the Quickstart rules a look through and the game seems to be quite a good fit for me as it's

a) Rules Light:Perfect for me as I usually GM and this gives me more free time due to less prep work.

b) Completely Backwards AND Forwards Compatible: This is a really strong point as being able to use any Adventure for AD&D (and D20 with a bit of prep work) with C&C gives me literally tons of modules/books to choose from.

I do have a few concerns though. First of all the character classes all seem a little bland. It seems like a fighter is a fighter is a fighter. I.e. Little to no variance.

Second how does combat flow at higher levels? I don't have a lot of experience with this but it seems a lot of 3.5 folks complain about how long higher level combats last. Is this problem also true for C&C?

Well I think I will try and pick up the 2 main books,but they seem to be quite difficult to come by here in Germany. Amazon Germany has the MT book at a good price but the cheapest I could find the PHB for was around $40. Yikes!

Also if anyone has a Skype chat game going on with an open slot I would love to give the system a test drive as a player.

Thx in advance

-Patrick

Captain Napalm wrote:
Well I think I will try and pick up the 2 main books,but they seem to be quite difficult to come by here in Germany.

They're difficult to find in France too. You can order them in the US : the dollar is getting cheaper and cheaper.

You'll get both books (latest printing) and shipping for less than 35 euros (50 dollars), if you fit them in a Global Priority Envelope.
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Don't trust me, I'm French.

Welcome to "the possible beggining of your" crusade!

Quote:
I do have a few concerns though. First of all the character classes all seem a little bland. It seems like a fighter is a fighter is a fighter. I.e. Little to no variance.

Variance can come from prime selection, weapon selection, and most important: flavour and roleplaying. I find that this can give me infinite posible characters, non alike (as it did in the AD&D days).

That said, it's really easy to house-rule the fighter for more costumization. I think that replacing combat dominance with say, almost any 3E feat or two, works just fine.

Replace combat dominance with rapid shot and point blank, you got an archer. Replace combat dominance with power attack you got a viking "hammer of thor" smasher. Replace combat dominance with combat expertice and specialize in rapier, you got a swashbuckler.

Quote:
Second how does combat flow at higher levels? I don't have a lot of experience with this but it seems a lot of 3.5 folks complain about how long higher level combats last. Is this problem also true for C&C?

I haven't played high level, but at least in theory C&C looks quite faster.

1. No iterative attacks.

2. Less dice to rolled to resolve things in general.

3. Numbers are smaller in general.

4. Less "buff" spells and circumstancial modifiers, etc.

Hope that helps,

Z.

Combat's quick at any level if folks know what all numbers they need. Its certainly a lot faster than 3.5 D&D combat.

As for the classes 'bland' is a perception issue. Doesn't matter how few or how many special tricks a character has, if the player doesn't put some personality in said character, any class in any system will be bland.

Now, once you get the M&T, just note the section in there, on page 88, which deals with magic item creation. One part talks about using experience points from other characters to fuel the creation of a given magic item that emulates class ability. No reason why that same system can't be used to jury rig in a class tweaking system as well.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Just to add a few to your list

5. simpler initiative system

6. no attacks of opportunity

7. less reliance on exact distances

8. "reach" is streamlined

Let me add that I've also played only at low levels, but combat just flies. Where we used to get through 1-3 combats in a night with low level D&D, we can do around 6-7 combats a night in C&C with plenty of story and roleplaying in between.

I assure you that high-level combat is very fast. Everyone rolls to save vs. instant death or petrification and the people who actually make their saves get swarmed the next round. =P

The intention of C&C is that you would make up house rules for class abilities and so on at 13th level and beyond. The result is that you can basically use all of the "epic" or "prestige" material for the 13th through 20th levels if you feel that you need it.

Eh.. slight correction. C&C is primarily aimed at new players. So, it was assumed that new players are going to take a while to get beyond 13th level on average. Information pertaining to the class ability progression beyond level 13, as far as I understand, should be appearing in the CKG.

Course, there is no reason one can't houserule their own stuff in as has been suggested.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

C&C combat at high levels is fast, very fast. I've even added some of my own elements into the game, and combat is still just as smooth as it was at first level as it is at later levels. However, I don;t often play C&C at high levels of exp.

.................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

We are playing at 12th level right now. Combat isn't as fast as it was at lower levels, but it is still much faster than 3E is at these same levels (I know, I played and DMed 3E for almost 5 years, with many games at these levels and higher).

Plus I use a modified type of feat system, which is really just using SIEGE checks to be able to do "feat like actions". Fighters are the most likely to succeed at making these attempts, so they are "cooler" than other PC's in that regard since I have now become convinced to base the SIEGE checks on BtH rather than actual LVL. Plus I will be allowing the Fighter to add in their Specialization bonus to these rolls when they use that weapon.

So they will always be +2 higher on such checks when compared to any other class, and +1 with any other weapon. A big edge in C&C.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

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Bear in mind also that "Higher level" doesn't mean the same thing as it does for 3rd edition D&D players; it's more on the old AD&D scale. High level is most C&K campaigns will be 9th to 12th rather than 17th to 20th like in 3.5

Tenser's Floating Disk wrote:
Bear in mind also that "Higher level" doesn't mean the same thing as it does for 3rd edition D&D players; it's more on the old AD&D scale. High level is most C&K campaigns will be 9th to 12th rather than 17th to 20th like in 3.5

From what I have seen of polls on 3E boards is most games in 3.5E end by 12th level. Higher than that is the exception. According to websites, and what WOTC says.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Treebore wrote:
From what I have seen of polls on 3E boards is most games in 3.5E end by 12th level. Higher than that is the exception. According to websites, and what WOTC says.

That may be the case, but that doesn't mean 12th level is High Level. Rather, it means that DMs are finding it hard to run high level games or that players are getting bored. I know a group that went up to 17th, but were complaining that it was too hard to run a challenging game without resorting to epic level uber-monsters.

Tenser's Floating Disk wrote:
That may be the case, but that doesn't mean 12th level is High Level. Rather, it means that DMs are finding it hard to run high level games or that players are getting bored. I know a group that went up to 17th, but were complaining that it was too hard to run a challenging game without resorting to epic level uber-monsters.

They are quit right. I played in a number of games that went into the high teens and two Epic level games. One went to 48th level and the other to 63rd. A book keeping nightmare. For the players, let alone the poor DM.

Never mind how broken the system is at Epic levels.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames