Troll Lord Games

I apologize if someone has already posted on this subject.

I like the Weapon Mastery rules in the old Rules Compendium (Basic D&D). I wanted to try them out in C&C. Has anyone tried this out? How did it work?

I had thought about offering it to the Fighter (of course), the Knight, Ranger, Paladin, and Barbarian. To make the fighter continue to be an attractive class, I thought about giving the Fighter a faster progression.

The rules as written seem to favor certain weapons, of course, based on author preferences (the "sword, normal," for example),but that's a topic for another thread. But I like the idea of more lethal combat at higher levels.

You should be able to port them right in with no trouble.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

isn't there a pdf on weapon mastery on the cncplayer.net site? either way check the site out.

I think higher level Weapon Mastery kinda breaks the game, however if you port it over to C&C, it may work better. I had contemplated doing just this several times, but never pulled the trigger based on the balance issues from RC.

............................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Thanks ... that article on cncplayer was EXACTLY what I was looking for.

Omote wrote:
I think higher level Weapon Mastery kinda breaks the game, however if you port it over to C&C, it may work better. I had contemplated doing just this several times, but never pulled the trigger based on the balance issues from RC.

I dunno, used as intended its fairly balanced in my opinion. Finding a master or grandmaster to train a character isn't necessarily a given. And reaching GM level is only a 1% chance. Reaching either of those levels should be a major campaign accomplishment in my book. Finding a teacher, convincing him to teach you and actually reaching that level of accomplishment. If you manage to make it through, you should be hella-bad.

I've always liked doing things that way though. Even in d20 characters would have to find teachers for certain feats. Giving feats a more regional and personal feel. Fighters from Nation A being know for feats A,B,&C. WHile the neighboring kingdom had fighters who were more likely to posess feats c, F & T.

For example, I had a character that was master as the warhammer in RC. The parry ability alone with my character at 17th level was easy to perform. A simple Save vs. Death Ray I believe. Parry, parry, parry [deflect].

However, with a little juice this could work in C&C.

What about a simple, +1 to hit, and/or +1 damage for being better then proficient? How about adding critical hits when more then proficient? Increased critical range? More dice of damage? ...deflect?

These could all be added into a simple C&C weapon proficiency system.

...................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

mordrene wrote:
isn't there a pdf on weapon mastery on the cncplayer.net site? either way check the site out.

I just checked out that pdf and it seems way powerful. Way. It may balance out the advantages magic users get at higher levels though. Would the rules laid out in the RC be more flexible and realistic though? (Excluding the 1% sillyness)
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Someone send me some dice!

Thread Resurrection!

I also added weapon mastery to my C&C games, but only taking some hints and ideas from the RC. Weapon mastery for my games is already very much tied into a skill/proficiency system I use, but feel free to root around for it if you are interested. The link for such things is in my signature.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Necro'd hehe

I looked at your house rules and Wow, you bolted a lot of stuff onto C&C. Standard D&D fare so I'm sure the players didn't mind. Did they request the additions, or do you feel that the extra customization is beneficial?

Cheers
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Someone send me some dice!

Both. The players that I play with were pretty much obsessed with the 3.5 interation of the rules. So to ease them into the idea of C&C I created these rules. I must admit that I also wanted to up the "customizable aspect" to characters from a mechanical standpoint, while not really getting to the detail of v3.5. IMO v3.5 only creates the illusion of versitility with having so many feats. Like many others have said over the years, the Siege Engine can be used for nearly all of the feats and skills you'll ever need in a FRPG. What I did was use feats to augment the mechanics already presented in C&C (for the most part). As for skills, I have always loved skills from the earlier editions of the games, and even v3.5. I like running skill based games, and I think that these skills really help and enhance players to roleplay characters. The decisions I made to use with C&C were not easy and took about 2-3 years to fully realize, playtest, and make sure I didn't turn C&C into something completely different then what the game was intended to be. Sure, others will disagree but it works for me.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Well as C&C is from the 3x Srd I think it would run well even with all the stuff added back. But the question is why not run the regular 3x game? With skills and feats added back, do Seige checks still work the same way? I didn't really look at the skill system you have too deeply, is it rank based or a flat skill? How do your players like they hybrid?

Cheers
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Someone send me some dice!

The feats I added back into the game for the most part are all general feats and can be selected by any class. Plus, I turned the idea of gaining an attribute point into a feat selection.

As for skills, what I came up with was a list of proficiencies/skills that are more akin to AD&D2E and use skill ranks. Each rank adds a further +1 to the die roll on the siege check. Any class can try any skill listed. IF the skills has been chosen, you can add your level to the siege skill check. If the skill is not selected, then you can still attempt the skill but only add in the attribute modifer. Siege checks work exactly the same.

All of these little sub-systems do make the C&C game seem more 3E-like from the outside looking in, but it is still the C&C game just with a few more mechanic-lite sub-systems thrown in. The game is not hung up on rules questions, and whether the feats work in certain situations, or whatever. The feats and skills listed here were designed with C&C in mind; to work with the mechanics that C&C already presented. Weapon Mastery is another story. The system is inspired by the one from the Rules Cyclopedia, but in effect is a whole new system to add to C&C.

All of that being said, it's still nowhere close to what 3E is.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Sounds like you have the best of both worlds, "AC&C" if you will.

Cheers!
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Someone send me some dice!

I have been playing around with a BD&D C&C conversion, and have thought of simplifiying the RC weapon mastery rules, while keeping the general feel of them.

This conversion ties in to the C&C fighter's Weapon Specialization ability:
WEAPON SPECIALIZATION: At 1st level, the fighter can choose one weapon with which to specialize. All weapons are eligible, including ranged weapons such as the bow or sling. The weapon with which the fighter specializes is usually common to the fighters culture or society, but it need not be. The Castle Keeper and player should consult to determine which weapons are available for specialization, bearing in mind culture, location and availability. The fighter can only choose one weapon with which to specialize. Once chosen, the weapon cannot be changed. This weapon specialization gives the fighter a +1 to hit and a +1 to damage when using that weapon.

Every three levels after 1st level (3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th) the fighter gains another weapon specialization. He may either add a new weapon, for a +1 to hit and +1 to damage when using that weapon as well, or he may put the new weapon specialization ability in to an existing weapon choice, improving it.

Two weapon specialization slots spent on the same weapon increase it to +2 to hit, +2 to damage. Three specialization slots spent on the same weapon increase it to +4 to hit, +4 to damage. Four slots spent on the same weapon increase it to +6 to hit, +6 to damage. At 12th level, if a fighter spent all five weapon specialization slots on one weapon, he would gain a +8 to hit and +8 to damage when using that weapon.

Now, this also assumes a BD&D fighter BtH progression of +1 at lvls 1-3; +3 at lvls 4-6; +5 at lvls 7-9; +7 at lvls 10-12; and +9 at 13-14.

If you were going to keep the standard C&C fighter BtH progression, you might want to just keep the bonuses increasing at a +1 instead of +2.

I haven't included increasing damage die per level of mastery, nor the % to find a master to teach you, I wanted to keep it simple.