Attribute Modifiers

Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:19 pm

Do any of you use the standard d20 attribute modifiers in your C&C games versus the ones in the C&C Players Handbook?

Do you think using the d20 modifiers would unbalance a C&C game?

Just curious, since I am considering using the d20 attribute mods for the benefit of some of the 3.5 D&Ders who may be playing C&C with our group.

Also, if you keep the standard C&C attribute mods, do you continue the standard spread at stats above 19, i.e. 20-21 is +4, 22-23 is +5, etc.

Thanks for any info.
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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:34 pm

D20 Attribute Modfiers are only a slight variation on a theme. What makes them so important in 3e D&D is the fact that they 'go up', so that Characters can achieve a Strength of 30, which translates to a +10 Modifier (I think).

When you're limited to a spread of -3 to +3 and the probability of Attribute generation means that most fall into a -1 to +1 range, you limit the effect of Attributes on the game, which is desirable if you are looking for any sort of 'balance' or, more importantly, to take the focus off how Attributes contribute to the game.

I wouldn't use the D20 Attribute Table for C&C, but then I don't use the C&C tables as written either. This is the table I use:

Only Monsters have access to Attributes higher than 18 in my games.
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Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:49 pm

Matthew,

The stats for the Belts of Giant Strength in the C&T book, seems to bare out the 20-21 is +4, 22-23 is +5, etc. idea.

Now that I think about it you could be right about the higher d20 bonuses overpowering a C&C game since it they could make hitting the SIEGE Challenge Class numbers easier, plus I would have to recalculate all of the monster stat blocks as well if I went with the d20 modifiers.
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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:01 pm

Yes, that's how the C&C Attributes go up. I think you can find that information laid out in the errata or somewhere... The Belt of Giant Strength, however, has always been a considered a powerful magical item.

I think using the D20 Attribute Modifiers would be a minor power up, what would break the game is allowing Attributes to be increased as they are in D20.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:08 pm

I feel that the modifiers are close enough not to warrent a change. I stick with the C&C chart, but in my games there is never an upper limit on attribute scores. I also tend to give out attribute increasing items more then your average C&C game I think.

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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:15 pm

Well, it's a very robust system, so I wouldn't be surprised to find that to be the case. It's not to my taste to allow for much in the way of Attribute increase, but each to their own.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:16 pm

I like that chart.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:48 pm

I use the D20 versions with the +2/-2 race modifiers. I don't use the +1 attribute score/X levels though. I haven't noticed any difference out side of maybe adjusting a CL slightly.
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imweasel · Post by **imweasel** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:54 am

I think the 3.x system of stat/2 - 5 works well in C&C.

One less chart as well.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:03 am

I just use this:

< 10 = 0

11 - 14 = +1

15 - 18 = +2

19+ = +3

There are non-formulaic penalties for low attributes in my games; ie, a low strength means no carrying certain weapons and armor (which means nothing to classes that use them anyway.)

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:24 am

serleran wrote:
I just use this:

< 10 = 0

11 - 14 = +1

15 - 18 = +2

19+ = +3

Out of curiosity, why do you prefer this method?

When i first starting learning C&C, i wanted to go to the d20 modifiers too. But now i'm happy with them as is.

-Fizz

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:33 am

1) Its easy.

2) It doesn't penalize anyone for having bad rolls for everything they might possibly want to do that involves the stat (even an idiot can be smart, if that makes sense...) In my games, low scores are a penalty in themselves (restrictions on things) so a further penalty is just a smack in the face. This doesn't even count things that reduce or affect attribute scores like shadows or other undead.

3) It makes a race with a bonus to an attribute have a meaning (that is, if you roll an 18 and you get +1 to X, that's better than rolling an 18 and not having it, because that +1 really is a +1.) It also keeps such races on the higher end toward having attribute bonuses, so those +1s are meaningful (that is, the average of 3d6 is 9 - 12, but with a +1 that average goes to 10 - 13 which is typically a +1- same as the bonus itself.)

4) Its not quite like anything D&D has done before.

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:47 am

serleran wrote:
2) It doesn't penalize anyone for having bad rolls for everything they might possibly want to do that involves the stat (even an idiot can be smart, if that makes sense...)

Hmmm... dunno about that one. You should see some of the students i had a few years back when i was a TA. Heh.

Quote:
4) Its not quite like anything D&D has done before.

Well, i suppose that is a good enough reason for anything. Heh.

-Fizz