Race Abilities...Humans underwhelming?

FCWESEL · Post by **FCWESEL** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:32 am

Compared to the other races, it feels as if the humans are a bit underwhleming. Is getting a add'l Primary Attribute that much of a bonus when compared to the other race's abilities?

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:44 am

FCWESEL wrote:
Is getting a add'l Primary Attribute that much of a bonus when compared to the other race's abilities?

Yes. Yes it is.

Once you get accustomed to the SIEGE engine and see how Primes can make your life as an adventurer a lot easier, you'll see how having an additional prime is a godsend.

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:48 am

DangerDwarf wrote:
Yes. Yes it is.

Once you get accustomed to the SIEGE engine and see how Primes can make your life as an adventurer a lot easier, you'll see how having an additional prime is a godsend.

Amen brother, amen.

R-
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:36 am

Yeah, having that third prime is a BIG, HUGE, advantage.

Think of it this way, its a +6 bonus to all saves and checks related to that stat. What racial abilities beat that? None, in my opinion.
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FCWESEL · Post by **FCWESEL** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:21 am

Cool, thanks guys for the input.

I guess I was just thinking "theme more than numbers", if you know what I mean.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:30 am

FCWESEL wrote:
Compared to the other races, it feels as if the humans are a bit underwhleming. Is getting a add'l Primary Attribute that much of a bonus when compared to the other race's abilities?

YES!
at least I think so.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:15 pm

Pure ability comparing - if you called the third prime something like Flexibility: Due to the human's notorious adaptive qualities, they are able to understand and have greater chance of success when utilizing areas of skill outside those they are generally accustomed. Select one attribute that is not Prime already. Any roll, including saves, that are based on this attribute, receives a +6 bonus, above that of level. Additionally, because this is a racial ability, the human is considered "trained" despite having no formal training, so they can perform equally well as those who have the same through whatever means...

It is that last part that makes the human ability [g]Godawful strong[/b]

Even the half-elf +2 bonus is nowhere near as powerful.

One might argue that the third prime actually unbalances humans.

BASH MAN · Post by **BASH MAN** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:53 pm

Humans are very powerful-- capable of playing rogues & rangers far more effectively than any other race.

However fighters, clerics, wizards, and paladins (as well as a few other classes) that have 1 prime and no abilities based on other stuff-- you can easily get by playing another race.

Instead of humans, I'd question the power of dwarves over halflings-- but "balance" isn't the pooint of the game. The main reason I even complain about the rangers/rogues issue is that I think elves should make the best rangers and halflings the best rogues... but I get around that by saying all class abilities are base 12 difficulty regardless of primes.
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Stuie · Post by **Stuie** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:21 pm

serleran wrote:
One might argue that the third prime actually unbalances humans.

That thought actually crossed my mind when I read the thread topic.
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ssfsx17 · Post by **ssfsx17** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:32 am

None of my players ever take anything besides human. Even at level 1. And these are people who normally like to try out all kinds of elves and dwarves, and who normally place a high value on being able to see in the dark.

That's how major the prime is.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:42 am

Now.. extrapolating from page 33 of the M&T.. one can make an elf that would boot stomp all over the human ranger.

Note what sort of bonus' a Wild Elf gets. Then make the wild elf a fighter thief.

There are always ways to make 'my character is better because of' scenarios. You just have to look for em.
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Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:05 am

That third prime is nice. Not nice enough to entice me to play a Human, because frankly, I play one every day in real like. But it is nice enough that in our first run at C&C, we had more humans than I expected. Everyone is demi-human this go around, though.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:54 pm

Yeah, I don't play humans often because I find the idea boring. I'm a human, or so they think - I'd rather play something that was not human. Maybe next character I'll play what I have waned to play for a very long time... a goblin. Those rule.

Alcahaelas · Post by **Alcahaelas** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:16 pm

In my campaign not one of my players (7 of them) are human. Go figure.
However, they (and I) are new to C&C. If they get stomped at some point and have to reroll, I suspect there will be a human or two. However, I think it's stat whores who mostly go for every "edge" in the game and don't look at the flavor of their character. They are "roll" players instead of "role" players.

My group--they're in it for the fun and chose races where they could roleplay with a healthy disregard for "roll" playing. They've actually managed to have a very balanced party somehow:

1/2 Elf (elven) Fighter (my 12yo son with the 2H sword)

1/2 Elf (elven) Cleric/Wizard (19yo nephew)

Dwarf Friar (father in law, age 64)

Gnome Barbarian (my 9yo son, he rocks!)

Gnome Spellsword (wife, age 37)

Halfling Rogue (nephew, age 12)

1/2 Orc Cleric (NPC)

And in the wings stands an Elven Ranger (nephew's friend, age 19) who couldn't make the first session.

None of them knew what the others had chosen because I had them roll up their characters separately, choose their classes, races, etc. Then they all met up "on the road" so to speak (at an Inn, actually, in Malforten, for the Rising Knight scenario).

So a fully non-human party. I had explained to them prior to rolling their classes how primes work, how humans get 3 and demi-humans get 2 + racial abilities, etc. They all chose demi-humans because they wanted to roleplay something different. For the fun. That's a good thing and so far their party has had a ton of laughs, especially with the "old man" playing a dwarven friar who's always asking everyone what's in their pockets and how much they're going to give to the poor. I think he's going to convert everyone (except the 1/2 Orc) by the time they reach Yggsburgh, 2 or 3 session from now (we're set to play every other Saturday, session #2 in 2 days!).
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:29 pm

The few times I get to play, I play human characters. Most of the books I read center on a human protagonist (with an occasional demi-human sidekick). So I usually picture the hero, moi, as human.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:41 pm

Yeah, I usually play human, no matter what the game, or edition. I look at playing something other than human being what the munchkins go for.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:25 pm

Human is as munchkin as it gets in my opinion.
-O
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:04 am

Treebore wrote:
Yeah, I usually play human, no matter what the game, or edition. I look at playing something other than human being what the munchkins go for.

Story-teller! Treebore's story-telling!

He plays a third level minotaur.

*munchkin, indeed*
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Hairfoot · Post by **Hairfoot** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:21 am

serleran wrote:
Yeah, I don't play humans often because I find the idea boring. I'm a human, or so they think - I'd rather play something that was not human.

I played nothing but humans for 10 years, and couldn't really grasp why anyone would want to play anything else. When I returned to RPing after a 5-year break, I wanted to play anything but.

Odd, that.

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Race Abilities...Humans underwhelming?

Race Abilities...Humans underwhelming?

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