My First Time Running C&C Tonight!

[Joe]

Hi,

We switched systems from one to Castles & Crusades this Friday evening.

Two players were switching over a 4th level ranger and cleric to the C&C rules. Another was a diehard fan of that other rpg that decided to sit in on a game. He played a 4th level rogue.

The players are in a home brew realm that is being threatened in war by an evil Empire city state. Fleeing the coastal seaports the party helps almost 200 war refugees escape the war torn region to the northern province to rebuild in the frontier north. Upon the path they meet much peril.

Well tonight we started playing C&C.
I am putting them thru a Dungeon Crawl Classic with the races and such changed to fit my realm.

They had some urban encounters and soon found one city inhospitable toward the caravan. They continued to travel north to the relative safety of Fairhaven in the Northern Priovince of their home nation where comfort and shelter is promised.

In the middle of their own nation they seem to have stumbled upon an enemy stronghold!

Deep into the foggy marsh the refugee caravan travellled with the party guarding separate wagons. Out of the mist a startling apparition appeared.

A horse dragging by the stirrups the lower torso and legs of the lifeless rider. Behind the horse dragged lengths of entrails.

Long story short, the heroes investigate and discover a grizzley scene of death. Apparently a slave caravan of wagons was attacked by something horrible.

As they watched a dragon finish destroying the orc slave caravan they heard the warhorn of the caravan leader blowing in alarm.

Racing back to your refugee caravan you discover that those entrusted under your protection have been abducted by orc slavers!

Following the kidnapped members of your caravan you discover that a self proclaimed witch queen has built a fortress and mining operation in the middle of this soggy land mining a fiendish ore.

In their effort to rescue their friends they met an old madman that gave them much information in his ramblings but eventually attacked the party with his skeletal undead minions.

They have found the fort the people have been taken but they are perplexed as how exactly to gain entrance to the stronghold.

Next game they decide upon how to breach the walls or this place and rescue those that were kidnapped.

Overall it was good fun!

I do have two questions though.

How many times does a cleric get to turn undead per day???

Also, if he fails to turn he has no others chances for an entire day???

Is this true?

As a CK I like the idea that many undead encounters can also be more challenging to parties with clerics if the cleric happens to fail but the player running the cleric realized some encounters will become very deadly in an instant when facing some undead foes.

The diehard fan of that other rpg kept comparing mechanics and tactics when I realized something. The mechanics and tactice means less to me than the ability to run epic fantasy. How will I ever build character development and player involvement in the realm when it takes all night to run a couple fights?

I value the spirit and feel of high fantasy over detailed tactics and mechanics.

I am trying to lead these characters thru an epic campaign of intrigue and adventure. The actual game system rules means less to me than the fact of which system best enables me to spin my tales and run my advetures.

Being the first time to ever run the game it was surprising to me how little we actually referred to the PHB.

We spent less time with rules and more with the adventure than I would have imagined possible for a first time run thru a new game system.

IMHO

I may have found the fantasy role playing game I have been hoping for.

I look forward to running my second session of C&C.

Can anyone answer my turn undead questions?
-Joe

[moriarty777]

First off, welcome to the Crusade! I'm glad you had fun and I hope your player's are adjusting to the change in a very positive way.

Now to answer your questions concerning turn undead.

Turn Undead is a powerful ability and a Cleric doesn't have a limit on how many times he can attempt to use this ability. If he fails, he cannot make another attempt on that specific group of undead. The example listed on page 121 of the PHB helps illustrate this. I'll try and sum it up for you:

Basically, combat commences and there a group of zombies, a group of skeletons, and a vampire. The cleric uses his ability in an attempt to turn the group of zombies and fails. He can no longer turn that group of zombies for the day. However, on the next round, he can still attempt to turn the Skeletons of the Vampire. If a new group of zombies showed up during combat, the cleric could try and turn those... just not the original group he had failed on.

Hope that helps!

M
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Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

[gideon_thorne]

See page 121 in the C&C PHB under Turn Undead.
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Peter Bradley

[Matthew]

Heh, I know this Adventure. It's Saga of the Witch Queen, isn't it? Anyway, great to hear that you're having such a positive experience with Castles & Crusades. I recently read a less favourable reaction from a 3e player: RPGs you bought or played and wished you hadn't

Knight_Of_Twilight wrote:
Castles & Crusades.

Not because I dislike it, no, I love the hell out of it. Easily my favorite fantasy system ever.

No, its because none of my gamer friends like it. So it sits on my shelf, and I sit at my desk, wishing I had someone to play it with.

Zeb The Troll wrote:
Hmm, my group just picked it up recently as an alternative to buying all new D&D books when 4th ed. comes out. We haven't even really been playing 3.x for quite a while except using the SRD, but that's for another topic. Anyway, this is the one I regret. I hate it. It's like the opposite of FATAL. There aren't any rules for anything. It's like 1st ed. D&D with all the fun stuff stripped out of it and only the wonky convoluted stuff still in it. Like, why is that your rogue is 7th level and my wizard is only 4th, but we have the exact same amount of experience? (Seriously, in the campaign we're playing now using C&C, our rogue just got third level [2,501] and two of our party hasn't even hit second yet [wizard/illusionist gets second level at 2,601 and paladin not till 2,701]. :smallconfused: ) At least older versions of D&D had the xp tables sort of balance out at the mid levels but this one doesn't seem to.

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It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

[CharlieRock]

Joe wrote:
Hi,

I may have found the fantasy role playing game I have been hoping for.

I look forward to running my second session of C&C.

Can anyone answer my turn undead questions?
-Joe

Yay!
Older editions of D&D had limitless attempts per day to Turn Undead. It also allowed a Cleric to try a second time to turn undead provided the second attempt was during another encounter. Like, a Cleric fails to turn a vampire. Failing, the party defeats the vampire who escapes to his castle. Later on, the party enters the castle and the cleric may retry to turn the vampire.

Whether you allow a cleric to retry a particular undead in the same day, or not, is really splitting hairs (imo). The main idea is one try per encounter.
_________________
The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

[CharlieRock]

Matthew wrote:
Heh, I know this Adventure. It's Saga of the Witch Queen, isn't it? Anyway, great to hear that you're having such a positive experience with Castles & Crusades. I recently read a less favourable reaction from a 3e player: RPGs you bought or played and wished you hadn't

So some gamers don't like C&C. Almost as hard to imagine as playing a game focused entirely on vampires.

Takes all kinds.
_________________
The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

[gideon_thorne]

Matthew wrote:
Heh, I know this Adventure. It's Saga of the Witch Queen, isn't it? Anyway, great to hear that you're having such a positive experience with Castles & Crusades. I recently read a less favourable reaction from a 3e player: RPGs you bought or played and wished you hadn't

Yes, we're evil, horrible people cause we make players and game masters think for themselves. ^_~`
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Coleston the Cavalier]

Hey Joe! Welcome to the Crusade! Thanks for sharing about gaming session.
_________________


John Adams

[moriarty777]

gideon_thorne wrote:
See page 121 in the C&C PHB under Turn Undead.

Ya know... I could have just as easily done that!
Which reminds me, the Cleric class description is still referencing the wrong pages in the 3rd printing. They currently reference pages 118-119

M
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

[Matthew]

CharlieRock wrote:
So some gamers don't like C&C. Almost as hard to imagine as playing a game focused entirely on vampires.

Takes all kinds.

Nah, it's the specific criticisms that made me chuckle... stuff like "there's no rules for anything" and "it's the opposite of FATAL", almost as though that was some sort of criticism. Picking up C&C as an alternative to D&D 4e seems bonkers.

gideon_thorne wrote:
Yes, we're evil, horrible people cause we make players and game masters think for themselves. ^_~`

Hey, nobody can make them do that. What C&C does is require the Game Master and Players to think in order to have fun, which is much better.
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

[Joe]

Quote:
Picking up C&C as an alternative to D&D 4e seems bonkers.

Picking up C&C for whatever reason is never bonkers.

The guys at Troll Lords has hit on something here but it is not being marketed properly IMHO.

In an industry that everyone is swimming in one direction. They all follow the current of mass marketing to drive the gaming world. Troll Lord is offering an alternative from the flock.

We as consumers hold the power and yet we mindlessly buy whatever crap the corporations release as our...I repeat OUR favorite pastime get's morphed into something unrecognizable designed to boost sales and profit.

While we lose ourselves in endless bebates about game balance and mechanics we forget the very essence of adventure, and co-creation which was the role playing phenomena in the first place.

I am done trying to convince other players of the merits of C&C. If they are not willing to open their minds to the possiblity that less actually means more in this case then what can I do?

Bottom line is I found a game that I can run my own fantasy realm without some player telling me how I should run it 'correctly' according to WOTC. This is my game folks...not WOTC's game.

My diehard fan of that other rpg is busy trying to learn 'feats' taken directly from that other game.

I house ruled that some of these actions are possible thru stat checks, and after repeated successful attempts it will become a special ability the character can do.

I noticed he has a short list of feats he plans to pick up that comes straight out of the other game.

I am going to challenge him to create his own rather than copy known feats.

That way hopefully he can realize his options are actually as open as his own imagination.

[Treebore]

Joe wrote:
Picking up C&C for whatever reason is never bonkers.

The guys at Troll Lords has hit on something here but it is not being marketed properly IMHO.

In an industry that everyone is swimming in one direction. They all follow the current of mass marketing to drive the gaming world. Troll Lord is offering an alternative from the flock.

We as consumers hold the power and yet we mindlessly buy whatever crap the corporations release as our...I repeat OUR favorite pastime get's morphed into something unrecognizable designed to boost sales and profit.

While we lose ourselves in endless bebates about game balance and mechanics we forget the very essence of adventure, and co-creation which was the role playing phenomena in the first place.

I am done trying to convince other players of the merits of C&C. If they are not willing to open their minds to the possiblity that less actually means more in this case then what can I do?

Bottom line is I found a game that I can run my own fantasy realm without some player telling me how I should run it 'correctly' according to WOTC. This is my game folks...not WOTC's game.

My diehard fan of that other rpg is busy trying to learn 'feats' taken directly from that other game.

I house ruled that some of these actions are possible thru stat checks, and after repeated successful attempts it will become a special ability the character can do.

I noticed he has a short list of feats he plans to pick up that comes straight out of the other game.

I am going to challenge him to create his own rather than copy known feats.

That way hopefully he can realize his options are actually as open as his own imagination.

Too bad we live 5 hours apart.
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[Joe]

Quote:
Too bad we live 5 hours apart.

Indeed...is Arizona that large? Where could it possibly take 5 hours to travel? You must be on the north rim of the Canyon.

Sorry if I sound a bit zealous.

What can I say...I'm on the Crusade!
It feels good to be part of a gaming community again rather than the mass consuming machine.

I only wish I could make it to Winterdark to meet some of you folks.

[gideon_thorne]

Its always best, with any hobby, to lead by example. Evangelizing too strongly just puts people off. If other people see a group having fun, with any game, they are more apt to join in. This opposed to wrestling them to the ground and haranguing them to death over the virtues of any system.
There are any number of games out there. And the reason most of them fail is that their proponents tend to be rather fanatical in their presentation.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Matthew]

Joe wrote:
Picking up C&C for whatever reason is never bonkers.

Heh, I think you misunderstand me. The idea to me seems to have been:

"I really like Dungeons & Dragons 3e, but I see that they are putting out Dungeons & Dragons 4e. Rather than buy into that, I'll pick up Castles & Crusades. What the hell? This isn't like Dungeons & Dragons 3e at all, it's like Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (which I never liked), but even less fun."

That's why it's bonkers.
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

[Joe]

Quote:
Its always best, with any hobby, to lead by example. Evangelizing too strongly just puts people off. If other people see a group having fun, with any game, they are more apt to join in. This opposed to wrestling them to the ground and haranguing them to death over the virtues of any system.

There are any number of games out there. And the reason most of them fail is that their proponents tend to be rather fanatical in their presentation.

They will play C&C and they will have fun doing so if I have to tie them to chairs and burn them with cigarettes as punishment for mentioning that other game. ooh ooh aah aah
I don't see anything fanatical about a little waterboarding for missing games either.

[Treebore]

Joe wrote:
Indeed...is Arizona that large? Where could it possibly take 5 hours to travel? You must be on the north rim of the Canyon.

Sorry if I sound a bit zealous.

What can I say...I'm on the Crusade!
It feels good to be part of a gaming community again rather than the mass consuming machine.

I only wish I could make it to Winterdark to meet some of you folks.

Nope. I am actually S/E of you down past Tucson and down by Douglas in the S/E corner.

Yeah, it is that far. I've driven to Phoenix several times, and if I remember correctly Prescott is a suburb (essentially) of Phoenix. Takes between 4 to 5 hours to get to Phoenix, depending on traffic and accidents. One time, last Thanksgiving weekend in fact, it took over 7 hours because there were 4 accidents between Tucson and Phoenix.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

[CharlieRock]

Matthew wrote:
Heh, I think you misunderstand me. The idea to me seems to have been:

"I really like Dungeons & Dragons 3e, but I see that they are putting out Dungeons & Dragons 4e. Rather than buy into that, I'll pick up Castles & Crusades. What the hell? This isn't like Dungeons & Dragons 3e at all, it's like Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (which I never liked), but even less fun."

That's why it's bonkers.

I misunderstood that, too. When I first read it. To my eyes C&C is a great alternative to D&D4 (or 3).
_________________
The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

[Joe]

Quote:
I've driven to Phoenix several times, and if I remember correctly Prescott is a suburb (essentially) of Phoenix.

I resemble that remark.
Prescott is the home of the first American Rodeo. It is located on the edge of the pines and the higher one climbs up the hill the more forested and green it becomes. Compared to the smog and throg of Phoenix I live in paradise.
Wish we could Crusade together but alas, a day trip is out of the question.

[JediOre]

Sounds like your running DCC #17: Legacy of the Savage Kings.

It's a swell module. I can't recommend it enough. That is what I took my friend through to convince him C&C is more fun for a DM (er, CK) to run.

I posted our experience running this over on Goodman's forums if your interested in another's attempt.

Good luck!

[Matthew]

JediOre wrote:
Sounds like your running DCC #17: Legacy of the Savage Kings.

It's a swell module. I can't recommend it enough. That is what I took my friend through to convince him C&C is more fun for a DM (er, CK) to run.

I posted our experience running this over on Goodman's forums if your interested in another's attempt.

Good luck!

Ah right, that's one of the D20 Modules that makes up the 1e compatable Saga of the Witch Queen. DCC #17.5 War of the Witch Queen is one of the others, I don't know where Lost Passage of the Drow originates..
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

[moriarty777]

Matthew wrote:
Ah right, that's one of the D20 Modules that makes up the 1e compatable Saga of the Witch Queen. DCC #17.5 War of the Witch Queen is one of the others, I don't know where Lost Passage of the Drow originates..

My understanding was that the Lost Passage of the Drow was written exclusively for the 1E conversion to link 'Legacy of the Savage Kings' and 'War of the Witch Queen'

M
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

[Matthew]

moriarty777 wrote:
My understanding was that the Lost Passage of the Drow was written exclusively for the 1E conversion to link 'Legacy of the Savage Kings' and 'War of the Witch Queen'

Now that you mention it, I think that I do remember hearing something like that.
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)

[JediOre]

Moriatry777 is correct.

The "Lost Passage of the Drow" was created back in June/July as a bridge to take the party from "Legacy" to "Witch Queen." It was made for the 1st edition GenCon special that Matthew spoke of. I don't know if Goodman Games have any plans to release "Lost Passage" as a stand-alone module for d20 or any other game system.

I may have been wrong but the way I read his post I assumed he had a DCC. Matthew, you may be right. He may have the 1st edition trilogy.

[Matthew]

I think you're right, that it's the D20 version Joe has. Pity, as the 1e version has got some great reviews!
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)