Troll Lord Games

I noticed that a couple of the summon spells make reference to Gods and Demons. I read in a thread that it is planned, however I was wondering if there is any updates to the status of the book.

I really like how C&C handles things and plan on buying just about everything for it.

Also are there plans on another monster book? I am thinking with all the open source monsters out there one can easily be made.

Thanks for any info.

Serleran is hard at work doing another monster book, and he also indicates he is involved in other C&C projects. As for when stuff is coming out, I haven't seen anything announced, other than its going to be a while yet. Except for modules, several modules are coming out soon.

Treebore wrote:
Except for modules, several modules are coming out soon.

Yeah, ask Omote.

AHHHH, MODULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I need more monster books... and books with demons... and... and...

.............................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

The trolls are always working on adding new stuff and can't release the info ahead of time without risking the whole project from a business perspective. Keep up the good suggestions then watch the hobby store shelves, rpgnow and the Troll Lord Games site for new product listings.

Brian Miller
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"The adventure continues"

Serl, it might be boring rehashing the same 'ol baddies for another monster book, and dispite the ease of conversion I think that those monsters need to be re-re-re vistied in C&C. Being the embodiment of old-scholl with new rules, C&C would do well to release Mnasters that have already seen print.

BUT, that is not to say that NEW baddies couldn't be added to a book with a lot of old monsters. Mix it up! That'll work.

.......................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

How about dinosaurs? I'd love to see them, but like most others I must say that demons and devils are sorely needed.

--Ghul

I agree it is easy to do older edition conversions, but it probably would be a good idea to do 3E conversion to illustrate the "rules" in the book for converting 3E monsters. A lot of people question how to convert 3e skills, feats, and DR's to C&C, espeically if your like me and don't have a foramlized skill or feat system. So people need to be shown how to use the SIEGE engine to convert and make use of a monsters particular skill or feat.

As for what I would like to see converted from 3E, as many of the "diffcult" monsters you feel like doing, IE the ones with a lot of feats, skills, special abilities, etc.. ad nauseum, so that i don't have to do all that work if I ever want to use them.

As for my favorites, well I like the 2E version of them best, so it will be easy for me to convert them all myself.

What is this call for demons and devils? That is high level stuff. Who's game has made it to high level yet? Besides the 1E and 2E versions are nasty enough and easy enough to use. Frankly the only reason I would want to buy a demon/devil/gods book for C&C is if it presents several cool new twists about them and how to use them in the SIEGE system in an innovative way. Otherwise the only reason I'm buying the book is to support the system. My old MM's and Deities and Demigods do the job just fine.

A new book on demons/devils/deities is really only needed for those who have only played 3E or just C&C. Judging by this board that would be very few players of C&C. Of course judging by 3E the boards are a very innacurate tool to make general market assumptions.

Quote:
What is this call for demons and devils?

If there is a book about demons and devils....then most likely be ART by Peter gracing the pages.

So really, it's just an underhanded way for us to get to see his renditions of the infernal.

Demons and Devils play a large part in my games usually. Even if the PCs never encounter them, it's nice to have a reference as to their power. This "Power Level" greatly affects the way in which I run my games, from a role-playing standard. Powerful demons can do interesting things, even send less powerful demon minions to harass PCs...

Regardless of how powerful Demons are, and power level of the C&C PHB2, I think demons are a vital, and interesting part of this type of gaming.

.................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Most of us probably don't have as campaign motivated a need as you do, Omote. The 1E/2E versions can't help with that? The power level of those editions seems to be on par with C&C so far, with what I have looked at and converted.

Tell you what, from now on with conversions, instead of just makng C&C notes in my MM's I'll actually write them out in notepad or wordpad and then post them on these boards. That way we can share in the work of converting them. Maybe down the road reach some kind of concensus on issues where a concensus is needed, if it is ever needed.

I think judging the demon/devil power level on the 2E/1E versions will be accurate enough for you to accurately plan and determine things, though. Until official stuff comes out. Using 1E/2E as your basde model will probably result in little to no change when C&C official versions are finished. Look at what Serl has converted stuff so far. Very close to 1E and 2E.

Well coming from me it's difficult to use conversions from 1E. I've never really played the 1E game and I own very few books. In my gaming career I went from Mentzer Basic to 2E on up. SO I actually don;t own any of those 1E monster books, however by osmosis I am familiar with them.

I guess that is one reason that I am so keen on seeing a M&T2 or the like.

........................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Demons and devils!
Hey, where the hell are the devil smilies???
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

If you have all, or even most, of the 2E monster manual stuff you have at least 1 version of every monster made for 1E. Just as easy to convert, too. Plus my opinion is that the 2E power level is actually closer to C&C. Its a hard thing to tell, though, without actually playing each version of D&D again.

Hmmm... I wonder if my family would be willing to try that, get a true experience of the nostalgic old days I keep talking about. Let them interact with some of my favorite old NPC's that I have talked ot them about and they have shown interest in. I'll have to pass that one by them.

Not to mention play Sabre River, Keep on the Borderlands, and Tomb of Horrors like they were originally intended to be played. Maybe even throw in a Dragonlance module for the heck of it, even though I never really got into DL, especially after Flint died.

Omote, you must be fimilar with the 2e MC. I would think that you could just do quick conversions with that.

R-

PS. Not trying to be snarky or anything.
R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

For my 2 cents worth I would rather see new things than revisits of the old stuff.

Yes, C&C is wonderful in the fact that it can be used with older and current D&D editions with little fuss and has reopened the old games to most of us.

But, C&C needs to move away from being just a D&D emulator.

In the long run it will need it's own voice, style and art that defines the game. If C&C is to survive in the long term it needs to not just only be rehashes of classic D&D but a moving forward from those original ideals.

Luckily TLg has given us a system that supports both ideals and I hope to see the products reflect that. The Gods and Demons book is on my list of long awaited supplements and I am learning to be patient in waiting. So keep up the good work Serl!
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I dunno, I like the Fleshcrawler so much, I wanna see what else is in Serleran's brain. Please more cool mosters.
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CK the CK
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Rigon wrote:
Omote, you must be fimilar with the 2e MC.

Most defintely, Mr. Snarky-pants!
While it is true that we could easily convert all 1E and 2E monsters to C&C, there is (to me anyways) somthing to be said by owning and referencing a book of the game you love so much. There is a viceral element to paging through C&C's MONSTER BOOK 2 that cannot simply be reproduced by paging through a monster manual that I created and typed out on my POS computer.

That could be a psycological element of my need to "purchase" new gaming material though...
.....................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Omote wrote:
While it is true that we could easily convert all 1E and 2E monsters to C&C, there is (to me anyways) somthing to be said by owning and referencing a book of the game you love so much. There is a viceral element to paging through C&C's MONSTER BOOK 2 that cannot simply be reproduced by paging through a monster manual that I created and typed out on my POS computer.

.....................................Omote

FPQ

I gotta agree with that.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

In 1st Edition, the MMI was mostly monsters from mythologies and Tolkein. The MM2 on the other hand, was almost completely comprised of creatures that were created and described in published dungeons, hence the material was revisited yet still new to some (those who hadn't bought the mods). Many of us GMs liked the fact that the new critters from the mods were compiled in a single source book for easier reference since we'd already used them in a game and intended to do so again. For that reason, overall, I found MMI and MMII got nearly equal use in my campaign.

I think serleran is right to suggest that "new" is important...however, until a new creature is used in an adventure (whether published or homespun) it's difficult to get a complete picture of how cool or not cool a creature is in play. So my suggestion is to have the module authors sign their NDAs so Serleran could port some of his new baddies into the latest mods and put 'em to good use.

Just my opinion,

Brian Miller
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"The adventure continues"

I agree on the MM1 and MM2 description as posed by miller6, adding that many creatures also appear from pulp s&s stories (giant slugs appear in a Conan story, as well as the remorhaz). I would like to see creatures from the MM1 that are from mythology extrapolated upon for C&C in one form or another. Creatures like the leucrotta and catoblepas, for example, appear in mythology as well as the writing of James Branch Cabell (among others) and the creatures deserve more than a mere paragraph for a monster that can be quite devastating (although I cannot argue that the art, by Trampier, isn't top notch).

I understand the the original MM was done by one person and don't get me wrong, it was a godsend for us back in the day, but now I want to see more depth to creatures, motivations, ecologies, etc. The catoblepas, leucrotta, and many more could be given a lot more strategic value for CastleKeepers.

eibon wrote:
I agree on the MM1 and MM2 description as posed by miller6, adding that many creatures also appear from pulp s&s stories (giant slugs appear in a Conan story, as well as the remorhaz). I would like to see creatures from the MM1 that are from mythology extrapolated upon for C&C in one form or another. Creatures like the leucrotta and catoblepas, for example, appear in mythology as well as the writing of James Branch Cabell (among others) and the creatures deserve more than a mere paragraph for a monster that can be quite devastating (although I cannot argue that the art, by Trampier, isn't top notch).

I understand the the original MM was done by one person and don't get me wrong, it was a godsend for us back in the day, but now I want to see more depth to creatures, motivations, ecologies, etc. The catoblepas, leucrotta, and many more could be given a lot more strategic value for CastleKeepers.

Whoa! Who are you Mr. 2 posts? A lurker or a transfer from Dragonsfoot?

Either way you guys are singing my tune, so keep it up! New stuff is definitely more useful to me than converting older 1E and 2E monsters. The only older stuff I'm interested in is to see how Ser would convert those feat and special ability laden super monsters of 3E over to C&C. If he has a couple of examples he could put up as a pdf on his website I would be totally satisfied and only want new creations out of his mind.

Of course I look at all the monsters in all the monster books I have and ask, "How can anyone come up with something new?" Scott, Erica, and the others keep doing it in the Tomes of Horror, so I guess it just takes a better mind than I have.

My name on the old boards didn't transfer here very well, thus I had to start a new name.

Treebore, when you say that new stuff is more useful, do you mean that you would like new or expanded material to older creatures as well as totally new monsters? For example, taking a creature I mentioned, the leucrotta, and expanding upon the beast enough to make it more detailed than the original offering. This would be in addition to creatures that haven't been seen yet in any version, or are you primarily interested in brand new creatures (at least new to DnD/C&C) as there is obviously still a large amount of creatures that have not been adapted to this particular format.

Monsters that have been covered from other books, but in a rather bland way, could also be portrayed in a more colorfull manner, such as taking the kappa from Oriental Adventures and putting a spin, such as Japanese writer Ryunosuke Akutagawa did when he made them a cultured, albeit oddball, critter. The tengu, kitsune and other creatures from that book really could use a bit of sprucing up as well.

Well that is the advantage of the new boards getting a new name, I am sure a few still wonder who I was on the old boards
ken
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

I've by no means made a study of it, and this would only work for you if you are like me and have been buying the 3E MM's from everyone, not just WOTC, but most of the monsters I have used fro 3E do have a decent "backstory" in their write-ups. Usually nothing very detailed, but enought to give me a feel for the creature.

I definitely do not remember reading a monster write up and thinking the write-up was inadequate. Stupid, not what i would do, but not missing. Most, if not all, monsters from 1E and 2E have been redone by someone, plus a lot of new ones, especially in the 3rd party MM's.

Now if I was coming from a gaming background that didn't include the 3E MM's, then yes, I would want what you are talking about.

Now if you do have the 3E books, and you hate the write-ups (I did), write up backgrounds on them that fit your tastes and maybe the Trolls will put it in the M&T's, or at least in the Crusader like the old Ecology articles (and new, but I haven't read Dragon in two or three years) so that the material can be out there.

Me? Don't have any monsters I like where I am unhappy with their write up from 3E. Since part of my love for C&C is the fact that ALL my D&D books are still useful, I like that the MM write ups from 3E books are still good for background info even after the stats are converted to C&C.

If I ever find a write-up that I hate enough to redo because I want to use the monster, I'll write it and submit it too.