New idea

[Rigon]

Here was a new (at least for me) idea I was toying with today for attribute generation.

Each attribute score starts out at base 10.

Then roll 1d8 for each attribute, which gives a range of 11-18.

However, as each race has different strengths, they get to add 2d4 to one attribute instead of the 1d8, giving that attribute a range of 12-18:

Dwarves - Con

Elves - Dex

Gnomes - Int

Halflings - Dex

Half-elves - Dex if Elven Lineage, player's choice if Human Lineage

Half-orcs - Str

Humans - player's choice

Thoughts and critiques welcomed.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

[Emryys]

Looks interesting
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[Treebore]

Its a method I could like.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

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[rabindranath72]

If you add 1d8, all scores between 11 and 18 will have an equal chance.

When you add 2d4, you favor scores around 15, but scores above 15 will be less probable than the same scores for the 1d8 method. If this is what you want, then the method is fine.

[Turanil]

Rigon wrote:
Here was a new (at least for me) idea I was toying with today for attribute generation.

Each attribute score starts out at base 10.

Then roll 1d8 for each attribute, which gives a range of 11-18.

However, as each race has different strengths, they get to add 2d4 to one attribute instead of the 1d8, giving that attribute a range of 12-18:

Dwarves - Con

Elves - Dex

Gnomes - Int

Halflings - Dex

Half-elves - Dex if Elven Lineage, player's choice if Human Lineage

Half-orcs - Str

Humans - player's choice

Thoughts and critiques welcomed.

As Rabindranath said regarding statistics. My suggestion would be:

1) best racial ability: roll two d8 and discard the lowest.

2) worst racial ability: roll a d6.
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[Rigon]

Not knowing much about statistics, I was just tinkering with a different way to do attribute scores. As to Turanil's suggestions, I like them, but I had figured that the races would still get to add in their attribute modifiers after their scores where determined. I'll have to tinker with it a little bit.

R-
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The Book of the Mind

[CharlieRock]

Adding a 2d4 will bring less rolled '8's then just 1d8 will. You need two rolled 4s which is about a 1:16 rather then the 1:8 a single d8 has of scoring 8.

... just saying ...
(it should give a slightly higher average overall, just not as many 'peaks')
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The Rock says ...

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[DangerDwarf]

Math....

Makes....

Head....

Hurt....

Which is why it is great having people who know it and probabilities here on the boards.

[CharlieRock]

I just said the same thing rabindranath72 said.

I'm the extraneous poster!
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The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

[serleran]

I find it funny that there are all these posts about increasing the attribute ranges at character creation. Why bother rolling if all you want are bonuses or high numbers. Just give them out. Its faster, more reliable, and guaranteed to get the results you want.

The Palladium game uses something like this, by the way.

[CharlieRock]

serleran wrote:
The Palladium game uses something like this, by the way.

Something like what? You lost me there. I always had to roll attributes in Palladium games. Sometimes it was 4d6, 5d6, or 2d6 depending on the race/type of character.

A CK could just tell players they get a 18,17,15,13,12,10 and they can arrange how they want.
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[serleran]

Quote:
Something like what?

The original post.

Quote:
Sometimes it was 4d6, 5d6, or 2d6 depending on the race/type of character.

Exactly. And sometimes, its 4d6 + 12, or 1d10 + 18, or 1d6 + 12, depending on the preconceived notions of what attributes are superior for that race (like C&Cs Primes.)

I was merely pointing out that, if desired, one could even give each race their own method of creation. Like... all dwarfs get 2d4+10 for Strength and Constitution, but have to roll 1d6 + 6 for Dexterity. Or whatever.

Don't forget to give all attributes an extra d6 if they are above a 16, because, you know, high stats only deserve to get higher... its not good enough if it doesn't give at least a +10. (and that is a dig at Palladium, not Rigon.)

[CharlieRock]

serleran wrote:
The original post.

Oh, I thought you meant the method in the post you said that in. The "CK gives out stats" method.
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The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

[Treebore]

Just tell the players to have whatever stats they want. Its easiest, guarrantee's the player will be happy with the character, and it sure as heck doesn't break the game. Just maybe exceeds the skills of the game master to deal with. Which is easy, give the bad guys a few extra HP's, an extra point or two of AC, etc...
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[Rigon]

I would go with the predetermined stats, but I really like the randomness of rolling. As to the math, I kind of like having higher averages without all the peaks. Just my way of thinking.

R-
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The Book of the Mind

[Treebore]

Rigon wrote:
I would go with the predetermined stats, but I really like the randomness of rolling. As to the math, I kind of like having higher averages without all the peaks. Just my way of thinking.

R-

I know. As you have read my houserules, even though I say give yourself whatever stats you want, I believe everyone chose to use the dice rolling method I gave.

I find it very funny that even when I offer total freedom in creating characters, players almost always opt to roll. I've only had one player in the 15 years I've been doing it actually decide what their stats were to be.

Everyone else has rolled. Even the powergaming munchkins I ran into in 3E rolled.

I'm still trying to figure that one out.
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[Rigon]

They must have had a spasm or something.

R-
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The Book of the Mind

[rabindranath72]

When you roll 1dX + Y you do not get any "peaks" in the distribution of values (i.e. a most probable value). You get all the numbers between Y+1 and X+Y with the same chance.

Whereas, when you roll NdX + Y, you get a "peak" (i.e. a value which is more probable) in the distribution, centered approximately at N*X/2+Y (actually, some rounding operations are necessary). All values which are far from the peak (larger or smaller) get decreasing chances.

Cheers,

Antonio

[CharlieRock]

rabindranath72 wrote:
When you roll 1dX + Y you do not get any "peaks" in the distribution of values (i.e. a most probable value). You get all the numbers between Y+1 and X+Y with the same chance.

Whereas, when you roll NdX + Y, you get a "peak" (i.e. a value which is more probable) in the distribution, centered approximately at N*X/2+Y (actually, some rounding operations are necessary). All values which are far from the peak (larger or smaller) get decreasing chances.

Cheers,

Antonio

Unless you meant "peak" like the number of highest possible results.

Not the correct meaning of peaks, in a statistical sense. More of in a weightlifting sense where you "peak" with your highest weight.
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The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

[csperkins1970]

Rigon wrote:
I would go with the predetermined stats, but I really like the randomness of rolling. As to the math, I kind of like having higher averages without all the peaks. Just my way of thinking.

R-

By default I use 4d6 and drop the lowest die. For your idea (races with strengths and weaknesses I'd tweak it like this, and get rid of racial modifiers):
Dwarves: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except CON [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and CHR [3d6].
Elves: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except DEX [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and CON [3d6].
Gnomes: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except CON [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and STR [3d6].
Half-elves: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats.
Halflings: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except DEX [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and STR [3d6].
Half-orcs: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except STR [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and CHR [3d6].
Humans: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats

[Harry Joy]

csperkins1970 wrote:
By default I use 4d6 and drop the lowest die. For your idea (races with strengths and weaknesses I'd tweak it like this, and get rid of racial modifiers):
Dwarves: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except CON [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and CHR [3d6].
Elves: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except DEX [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and CON [3d6].
Gnomes: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except CON [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and STR [3d6].
Half-elves: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats.
Halflings: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except DEX [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and STR [3d6].
Half-orcs: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats except STR [5d6 (drop 2 lowest)] and CHR [3d6].
Humans: 4d6 (drop lowest) for all stats

Hey! I like that. Nice variation on the 4d6-lowest system.

[Omote]

Not bad csperkins1970, not bad at all. That methodology is like Palladium's attribute system, which I always liked. Great stuff.

-O
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[Fizz]

I recall the 1st Ed AD&D Unearthed Arcana had a similar system that CSPerkins just proposed, except it was based on class.

IE, fighters would roll 8d6 for Strength, 6d6 for Constitution, but only 3d6 for Charisma. It really was meant to build directly to a given class.

I found it a bit boring really, the only stats that had much variance were the ones non-relevant to your class.

This one though, is a nice variant. Gives a slight boost to the relevant stats without making a high score a foregone conclusion.

-Fizz

[serleran]

Yes, UA had it, and it was for humans only, because they got shafted on everything else... apparently.

[Rigon]

Interesting take, csp. I kind of like that too.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind