Troll Lord Games

The Troll Lords Blog today talks about a ton of options in the CKG. Some of that is fine. I have one question though. Are you going to playtest this pretty extensively? I was privy to some of the PHB playtesting and I think it added value.

It is being, or has been, playtested. But, since it is optional, anyway, if you don't like it... don't use it. The book is not written on the premise that it is a canonical source of officiality. Leave that up to the CKs using the damn thing.

Ohmigosh. The CKG has been or is being playtested? How horrible. How truly, truly horrible. That's the single worst thing I've heard all day long. OHHHH, how I pity the playtesters. What a cruel god it must be that has set them fate. OHHH, the monotony. OOOHHHH, the boredom. It must be so very hard, so very very hard for those playtesters to wake up on a Saturday morning thinking, "Oh, for the love of gawd, sorry honey, I've got to PLAYTEST again tonight." They are better, better men and women than I could ever hope to be. Rolling up yet another character; coming up with another concept; having to try to break some new, ill begotten concept, foisted on them by some cruel writer living in his ivory tower. The burden of knowing secrets, the agony of being in a small way responsible for the success or failure of a new product.

Horrible, I tells ya. Truly horrible.

And neither I nor my compatriot and CK Brutorz Bill would ever wish for such a dastardly and devilish trap to befall or kind, soft hearted, and studied group. Nay, nay, never. For the love of all that is good and holy and all fuzzy kittened in the world, I sincerely hope such a fell thing never happens to us.

Truly.

Please, oh please, and for the love of god, get someone professional to edit the thing. The appalling typos and grammatical errors on previous volumes are the biggest hurdles I face in convincing new players that C&C is a quality product.

Hairfoot wrote:
Please, oh please, and for the love of god, get someone professional to edit the thing. The appalling typos and grammatical errors on previous volumes are the biggest hurdles I face in convincing new players that C&C is a quality product.

We got someone 'professional' to edit the first CZ volume. Needless to say it didn't work out so good.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

gideon_thorne wrote:
We got someone 'professional' to edit the first CZ volume. Needless to say it didn't work out so good.

One thing that I have noticed over the years is that if you're using a spell checker (and I don't mean an apprentice mage, mind you) to search for typos (typoes? Dan Quayle be damned!), they won't catch homonym (there, their, they're) errors. Grammar checkers are far less than perfect, too, and will suggest/demand all sorts of odd changes be made to match their "style".

"Professional editors" at publishing houses are definitely becoming a thing of the past. It's truly up to the author/authors to proofread what they've written, and perhaps having a third party (or even a fourth or fifth) go over the text afterwards may be a Good Thing.

Hairfoot wrote:
Please, oh please, and for the love of god, get someone professional to edit the thing. The appalling typos and grammatical errors on previous volumes are the biggest hurdles I face in convincing new players that C&C is a quality product.

Gahdammit. The books not even out yet and someone has to start this crap again...
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

Hairfoot wrote:
Please, oh please, and for the love of god, get someone professional to edit the thing. The appalling typos and grammatical errors on previous volumes are the biggest hurdles I face in convincing new players that C&C is a quality product.

Show your players a d20 Fantasy book from Hasborg and then show your players all the uncorrected errata Hasborg has in their numerous printings of that book, then ask your players if Castles & Crusades is a quality product.
_________________
NOTE TO ALL: If you don't like something I've said, PM me and tell me to my face, then give me a chance to set things right before you call a moderator.
My small homage to E.G.G.

Quote:
then show your players all the uncorrected errata Hasborg has in their numerous printings of that book

All the collected errata would be a heavy load. There's, wait, PHB II, DMG II, Playing for Dummies, DMing for Dummies, Rules Cyclopendium, and the web errata... oh, and the Complete This and That, too.

Yeah, I think there's a tad more there.

Hell, C&C actually got thinner with the errata added!

So ... the CKG is going to be like the Unearthed Arcana volume from AD&D?
_________________
The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

CharlieRock wrote:
So ... the CKG is going to be like the Unearthed Arcana volume from AD&D?

Well, i'm not the author, but actually i'd say it's going to be more like the 3E version of Unearthed Arcana than from AD&D.

The original UA was essentially a second PH. New races, new classes, and new spells was the bulk of it.

But the CKG is going to be about variant rules and options that impact the whole system.

-Fizz

Its not really a UA, from either system. It has some official rules, perhaps, and a whole lot of "if you like to mess with stuff, here's how we suggest you start off - use this as a springboard; oh, and in case you didn't know what this meant, here it is..." so, in a sense, its almost like a C&C for Dummies.

Man, I would not market the CKG as anything like "C&C for Dummies." I would honestly just call it a book of all optional and variant rules and the like... since we all know that the CKG is not needed to run the C&C game.
-O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Omote wrote:
Man, I would not market the CKG as anything like "C&C for Dummies."

I agree. In fact, i'd say it's `Advanced C&C', since it's going beyond the basic rules towards a deeper understanding of the system.
-Fizz

Hehe. At least the joke was got.

I haven't done a count in the Eastmark Folio, but judging by the 3 rd printing of the PH and the Airhde Folio TLG is down to about .385 errors per page. I am sure its still irritating to the editors and such, but I hardly noticed any errors until I started looking for them.

So I imagine the CKG will be aroun 1 error every 3 pages as well. Fine with me.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

My interpretation of the book is that it was always intended as a sort of buffet-style offering for the CK: here's your salad bar, your chicken balls and plumb sauce...some of them there side fixin's and maybe a spot or two of Nanaimo bars or ice cream for dessert. While there are probably some additions will undoubtedly come higher recommended than others, the point remains that this is our chance to play fast and loose with a gaming system, and see what sort of neat little combos we can come up with.

Honestly, I just can't wait for the damned thing - here's to hoping that the boys get matters together over the next month or so and Santy will brung me one. Please oh please.

Omote wrote:
Man, I would not market the CKG as anything like "C&C for Dummies." I would honestly just call it a book of all optional and variant rules and the like... since we all know that the CKG is not needed to run the C&C game.
-O

Absolutely. It's more like C&C for "wizards"! LOL.

Seriously though, I expect it to be a book to provide some ideas or different ways to enhance the game, yet in no way going outside of the core PH rules.

_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte

"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

Julian Grimm wrote:
Gahdammit. The books not even out yet and someone has to start this crap again...

Amateurs call it crap. Professional game developers call it feedback and quality control.

Ya, but when we 'professionally developed' the C&C system, we also did it behind closed doors and not publicly. ^_~`

It's a great deal more professional to write (letter, email) to the powers that be with a given concern. That way, it goes direct to the source where they are more likely to see it than scattered over a wide range of web fora.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

I would like a Unearthed Arcana (either AD&D or D&D3 versions) type volume for C&C. Either in the form of the CKG or a later book. Maybe call it Inscribed Incantations. Or The Portable Portcullis (see the Castle theme?)
_________________
The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

How close to publication is it? I wants it ..yes I do!

Iam Who Iam

Hairfoot wrote:
Amateurs call it crap. Professional game developers call it feedback and quality control.

Let's get this straight. There are those of us who have been here since the beginning that have had to hear this type of crybaby posting. And even after the mistakes were fixed they still stroked their armchair publisher ego's by noting real and imagined 'errors' quoting print standards they didn't even know and swearing C&C would fall by those mistakes. Those people are gone and C&C is still here.

I wish I could remember all of the nonsense that was posted from the advent of C&C to now the ones that stand out are: 1) The apostrophe in the wrong spot on the cover would kill C&C. 2) The one person that was offended by a few lines in the first print of the cleric entry. 3) The repeated sock puppets that claim that TLG cannot produce error free work even though it has been proven that the errors are getting less and less even down to .385 errors per page. Compare that to the errors in a Hasbro D&D product.

In the end the repeated posts by armchair editors is nothing more than crybaby attention getting crap. In fact I nominate that we adopt a new policy that anyone posting for the sole reason of nagging TKG about errors should have to provide a mailing address so that the poster may be sent a Kleenex or Kotex depending on that persons particular need of the day. Also you will be sent a shirt that reads " I used spellcheck once so that makes me a professional editor" at no extra charge.
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

Julian Grimm wrote:
Also you will be sent a shirt that reads " I used spellcheck once so that makes me a professional editor" at no extra charge.

That comment is 'gold' in my books.

However, trust me when I say that you're not the only one who gets fed up with that sort of commentary. The only commentary that I come across that irritates me even more is anything about TETSNBN nonsense on Dragonsfoot! But that's another matter for another thread rant (which I won't go into).

M
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

There's an additional apostrophe next to my name in a book. That is unacceptable and TLG shall hang from the ramparts for it. Please mail my clean-up products to:

Omote

1234 Shut Yer Hole Ln.

Imfedup, Black Tooth Ridge 09876-5432

Aihrde

-O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

At least your name is not spelled wrong on the legal page... some damn fool named Robery Doyle stole my stuff (which is less ironic with that name, anyway.)

Julian Grimm wrote:
repeated posts by armchair editors is nothing more than crybaby attention getting crap

That would make a great quote to put into one's sig...
_________________
Homebrews Wiki a list of campaign settings on the web.

Turanil wrote:
That would make a great quote to put into one's sig...

Feel free.
_________________
The Lord of Ravens
My blog

serleran wrote:
...some damn fool named Robery Doyle stole my stuff

HEY! That Robery Doyle guy is a nice fella. Dresses a little funny, but otherwise a good guy. I don't think you'd like him much though Serleran.

-O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

What is the Estimated Time of Publication for the Castle Keepers Guide, or rather, "That Book that until very recently was known as the Castle Keepers Guide"?

Not to nag, or take away from the editorial/kotex/kleenex discussion , but when can we expect the book?
I understand that the original date has slipped. Are we avoiding setting a new date?

Best to All,

~AoB
_________________
~Adaen of Bridgewater, www.highadventuregames.com