Troll Lord Games

I was wondering, in your opinion what would be better to do:

1: Create 3 new spells for summoning various types of undead based on the summon monster spells

or

2: Tack on undead as a type you can summon with the summon monster spells.

I am thinking something along the lines of a necromancer who can summon minions.

Thanks.s

Well, since you summoned me to this topic, I guess I have to answer your question...but then I'm going back to my comfy coffin.
I like the idea of separate undead summoning spells. Interesting concept.

In my campaign, I'd make them vary rare though.

Brian Miller
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miller6 wrote:
I like the idea of separate undead summoning spells. Interesting concept.

Hmm, that IS a good idea.

......................................Omote

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I would not allow a summoning spell for undead, as that eliminates the need for the spells that create them.

serleran wrote:
I would not allow a summoning spell for undead, as that eliminates the need for the spells that create them.

But in the hands of a character restricted from using undead creation spells...could work. In other words, a class that steals the undead that another class creates. I like the idea...a body thief of sorts. Could call him a "beyond-the-grave robber".
Brian Miller

"Different spells for different classes"
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serleran wrote:
I would not allow a summoning spell for undead, as that eliminates the need for the spells that create them.

I don't think it eliminates the need. I definately reduces it however.

Summoning = Non-permanent

Create = Permanent

If you are an evil necromancer guy you can create a number of skeletons and wander around with your sweet dead parade for days without the need to summon any of them. At least until some pesky heroes give them the smackdown.

Summoning has a limited duration and thus would have to be memorized with regularity.

DangerDwarf wrote:
Summoning = Non-permanent

Create = Permanent

Summoning has a limited duration and thus would have to be memorized with regularity.

Good point.

Brian Miller
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I'd make it some kind of a class ability.

R-
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ok did not see the create undead spells. Those are cool, although cleric only.

I think however, one of the best necromancer concept is wizard/cleric.

Thanks for responses so far.

Why not just reverse the Turn Undead ability for evil clerics or whatnot? 8)
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Peter Bradley

gideon_thorne wrote:
Why not just reverse the Turn Undead ability for evil clerics or whatnot? 8)

Because the undead are probably too far out of range to even notice the presentation of a holy symbol. I always ran turn as line of sight only. An interesting thought though if you exclude the holy symbol effect.

Brian Miller
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Maybe use a summon undead like call lightning of old , more of an out of combat ritual, that will send a message to any undead in the area

ken
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miller6 wrote:
Because the undead are probably too far out of range to even notice the presentation of a holy symbol. I always ran turn as line of sight only. An interesting thought though if you exclude the holy symbol effect.

Brian Miller

*chuckles* I should learn to be less general. To rephrase. Just use the TU mechanic and reverse its effects to summon and control undead instead of repelling em.
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Peter Bradley

serleran wrote:
I would not allow a summoning spell for undead, as that eliminates the need for the spells that create them.

Unless the summoner can only summon undead that he has created.
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If undead summoning were possible, I would make it harmful to the caster, especially in the case of bringing forth those creatures with intelligence or near extraplanar qualities, like wraiths and ghosts. My reasoning is: undead are strictly tied to alternate planes, even the lowliest of skeletons have a tenuous bond to the negativity of these other worlds, but the more powerful, especially the mentioned above, are almost consumed by it, and dwell primarily within it. To simply strip an undead from its reality to do minor bidding for a short period of time would be taxing. So... I say: any undead summoning spell has the same restriction as haste. Fail a Con save, lose one HP permanently.

I converted the summon undead spells from Magic Of Faerun to use.
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OK, now I'm goign to have to pull out the 2E Necromancers book. I find the need for undead summoning evil to harass the party. How dare they mess with the Winter Witch and other minions of the Horned god?