troll blog today

trollwad1 · Post by **trollwad1** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:15 pm

Here is my 2 cents on their prioritization of product.

The CKG is OPTIONAL. In other words, I don't need it to play. Yeah its overdue, big deal. The only reason I should get it is because it is really really cool, the options are really thought out, the text is well written, the whole is organized and some of the options are playtested. I am a bit concerned because the PHB was extensively playtested but I see no signs of such with the CKG. Seriously, spend all the time you want on the CKG, don't rush it. Make it good. I don't need it or want it unless it is very good.

I don't care about C&C Basic at all. I mean cmon, the game is already basic.
I think the highest priority ought to be Castle Zagyg, the Yggsburgh town supplements, the Teeth of Barkash Nour, etc. I realize that Gygax is taking the lead on most of these, but surely there is time and effort that the Trolls can spend to speed up those efforts.

On a related note, Dark Chateau was expandable and the Yggsburgh region is dying for elaboration. Have any of the trolls had a discussion with mssr gygax to see if he would be ok to having someone else do a Dark Chateau-like "step out" or even a Dark Chateau continuation? You could view the Teeth in this light. It appears to be a step out to a partial plane but it is accessed via the Castle Zagyg.

YMMV of course.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:25 pm

Makes sense, really. The CKG should be out first. It "completes" C&C in a way, in the minds of many.

I guess I should get to hammering out what I'm supposed to be doing, too.

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:39 pm

I'm happy that the CKG is getting priority. I've been looking forward to it for a long time. I understand the point that it's optional, but then so are any of the books outside of the PH and M&T. And there are plenty of adventure modules now. The CKG has been steadily pushed back for 2+ years now. I think most of us have had enough teasing.
-Fizz

Coleston the Cavalier · Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:48 pm

For me, I'm not going to tell the Trolls how to run their business.

Surely they have mother-in-laws and such to do that.

I am going to applaud their efforts at letting us fan know what's going on.

That's an extra-effort on their part, in my opinion.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:23 am

If you think about it the CKG is as optional as CZ.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:43 am

But from what I understand the CZ material is far more on target than anything else. The principal people working on that are different that the people working on the CKG or C&C Basic. Or at least that is my understanding of the situation.

On the flip side, I'm happy that a decision has been made regarding this. Too many things on the go, a clear need to prioritize was needed. The CKG is probably the one book that has been waiting far too long to be released and is affecting other peoples view on TLG and their product line overall. The slower turn around than most fans regarding all things Zagyg is another.

Tackling some of these projects now and putting a greater focus means that projects will get the attention they deserve. With luck, this same focus will also help with other projects as TLG moves on to bigger and better things.

Either way, I've grown to be a patient sort, I'll be happy when all of this stuff is released but don't mind waiting for it either.

M
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:45 am

Quote:
The principal people working on that are different that the people working on the CKG or C&C Basic.

For the most part.

Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:52 am

Were I a Troll Lord, I'd definitely be focusing on getting the CKG out as quickly as possible, hoping to offer crunchy options to any 3.5 gamers that are looking for greener pastures and aren't interested in 4E.

My personal interest lies in other areas, though. I'd like to see:

More Castle Zagyg

King of England, King of France

More Lejendary Adventure

Pretty much in that order.
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slimykuotoan · Post by **slimykuotoan** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:01 am

Yeah, getting the CKG out before 4th ed. is a must, if purely from a business standpoint.

Gotta strike whilst the iron tis hot...

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:34 am

I want to see Basic because I now have one child very interested in gaming and I think it would be good for her. The CKG is another thing I want sooner but I am going to be patient and let it come in it's time. Of all the other things I really want to see is the formal annoucement of the C&C society and getting the ball moving again on that. But, like mentioned beofore, I'm not about to tell them how to run their business.
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Beyondthebreach · Post by **Beyondthebreach** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:07 am

I want to see the CKG and more accessories (less campaign settings!).

As far as telling the Trolls how to run their business . . . well . . . there is nothing wrong with suggesting how to run someone's business. For the most part, we are the consumer, after all. The business can listen or disregard as it chooses. I mean, when I have a complaint at a store, restaurant or business, I won't hesitate to speak up, tell them what they are doing wrong, get something for free, etc.

Not that I am complaining . . . but a small part of the reason TSR began a slow decline is they never listened to their customers . . . so, eventually their customers went away.

None of this is meant as a criticism of the Trolls, by the way - I do enjoy C&C.

But, More Accessories and Supplements! (which everyone can use and buy)

Less Modules and less Campaign Setting material! (which has a more limited audience and many aren't interested in them )- I am not running a campaign . . . thus I don't need any Settings and modules. If I was running a campaign, I would make my own setting and adventures.

So, I have money to spend on RPG material, but I don't spend it with the Trolls as there are no products being put out that peak my interest.

A CKG . . . a Tome of Magic . . . More Monsters . . . these will get my dollar.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:08 pm

And don't forget the Crusader. I love gaming magazines, and one concerning my favorite game all the more so.
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Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:09 pm

Beyondthebreach wrote:
As far as telling the Trolls how to run their business . . . well . . . there is nothing wrong with suggesting how to run someone's business. For the most part, we are the consumer, after all. The business can listen or disregard as it chooses.

Right, it's not so much about telling them how to run it. How they do things is up to them. But rather, as consumers we have the right, nay, duty to tell them what we want. After all, if they don't create what consumers want, nobody wins.

-Fizz

trollwad1 · Post by **trollwad1** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:39 pm

Quick aside about C&C Basic. Seriously, do you really think an 8-year old would have much trouble with C&C as is? Its pretty easy except for maybe the spells. C&C Basic seems pretty redundant to me.

I'm much more intrigued by anything Zagyg than I am by the CKG. Maybe part of my problem is that I havent seen the trolls really ever give examples of exactly what optional rules they are putting in the CKG. At the same time, part of the reason I escaped to C&C was to get away from 3e splatbooks and the pending nitpicky sounding rules of 4e.

If you want to adopt the Trolls perspective, does anyone really think they'll make more money off the CKG than off Castle Zagyg? I think Zagyg will attract a sizable od&d, 1e, 3e curious crowd and it could do more for C&C in terms of marketing buzz than the CKG will. For example, do you think Enworld will have a bunch of discussions of Zagyg or the CKG? At least I have a hard time imagining a complete newbie to C&C saying "oh boy I want to buy a bunch of optional rules for a game I've never played ...."

Personally, I'll buy two copies of Castle Zagyg and maybe half of the town supplements on day one but I'll wait until I see reviews of the CKG before I buy it -- will it really be good, is it better edited than the 1e phb? Should I wait for the second printing?

Just my 2 cents of course. Its the Trolls P&L

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:47 pm

I cant speak to the mindset of the trolls. But I figure the most likely reason to get the CKG out first, is precisely because its been languishing so long. Get it done and get it out and move on to bigger and better things.
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Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:50 pm

The thing is, from my understanding, Gary and Company are working on Zagyg. When they turn it over, I'm sure it will be rushed to the printers. But while the Trolls are waiting on those manscripts, they should be working on the CKG. There are currently enough adventure mods out there, IMO. I'd like to see some of the other things finished before they move on; namely the CKG and the Serleran's dungeon builder book.

Anyways, that's how I see it.

R-

Edit: I'd also like to see a couple more of the monster books they were talking about a few years ago.

R-
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Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:57 pm

Rigon wrote:
Edit: I'd also like to see a couple more of the monster books they were talking about a few years ago.

I agree. Monster books are universally useful, and hence ought to sell well. I think Serl mentioned 1001 Monsters. I'd like to see it get some priority.

-Fizz

Witterquick · Post by **Witterquick** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:10 pm

Let me second the notion of a Fiend Folio-esque supplement. I realize that most of the monstersin M&T fell under the open game license, but a book of home-grown monsters would be a great addition.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:41 pm

More monsters is never a bad thing. With C&C, there are only so many official C&C monsters. That is why the Monsters of Aihrde supplement or M&T two are both considered critical books (in my mind) to release in the next quarter or two. C&C needs some more baddies.

-O
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Post by **Breakdaddy** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:42 pm

Omote wrote:
More monsters is never a bad thing. With C&C, there are only so many official C&C monsters. That is why the Monsters of Aihrde supplement or M&T two are both considered critical books (in my mind) to release in the next quarter or two. C&C needs some more baddies.

-O

Just for you Im going to kill Steve with a level 8 Omote during the next game.

Witterquick · Post by **Witterquick** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:57 pm

I've started creating some of my own for the Dungeon Under the Mountain adventure I'm composing. I'll see if I can get some of them listed on the Strange Vistas pbwiki.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:08 pm

Awesome Christmas sale idea! Too bad I already own the first day stuff.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:27 pm

Breakdaddy wrote:
Just for you Im going to kill Steve with a level 8 Omote during the next game.

He'll never survive. Forget the flumph... The Omote will get ya.

-O
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:38 pm

Don't tempt me to start writing up usernames as monsters....

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:24 pm

As a gaming convention regular the fearsome Omote has the ability to sneak up on game developers as a rogue of the same level. Its special ability is a gaze attack that causes publishers to make a CL8 charisma save or give it instant discounts on all purchased items.

trollwad1 · Post by **trollwad1** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:04 pm

Actually another monster book sounds great

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:16 pm

I'd like to see more CZ material, and another monster book (oh, wait... - actually, umm, no, I'm not allowed to say, damnit.)

Jungger · Post by **Jungger** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:58 pm

The only thing I am concerned about is quality.

So many things these days are made to brake, rust and fall apart in a few years. All I want is the best CKG the Trolls can put out.

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:25 am

Jungger wrote:
The only thing I am concerned about is quality.

So many things these days are made to brake, rust and fall apart in a few years. All I want is the best CKG the Trolls can put out.

Ditto my man! I was reading my old d6 Star Wars 2nd Edition Rule Book today and thinking, "Wow! Some of these older books really hold up well. Not a sign of it falling apart." As much as I like my old 2E AD&D stuff, those books are lousy.

Coleston the Cavalier · Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:00 am

serleran wrote:
Don't tempt me to start writing up usernames as monsters....

Cool idea. Start with the few folks with more than 2,000 posts, you know Treebore, Omote, Rhuvein, gideon_thorne, and a, yourself.
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