Houserule : spiritual/psychic combat + Warlock

[Turanil]

This is a houserule in progress waiting for suggestions to improve it.

The idea is to have some mechanics slightly more elaborate than a simple saving throw, to deal with spiritual/psychic combat when a character is confronted with a demon trying to invade his mind, or when trying to take control of an inteliigent sword, etc. This houserule first assumes there is no psionics already added to the game. Then, spiritual/psychic combat is intended but for occasional circumstances; PCs should not be able to attempt it whenever they want, only the CK would decide when it is relevant.

For example, a character touches a sword/orb/whatever that contains the soul of a demon. Each round the demon will psychically attack the character, but the character can fight back and thus try to psychically subdue the demon and thus let him handle the item and use its powers. Another example would be of a spellcaster summoning a demon in a pentacle. The pentacle would prevent the demon to step out of it and physically (or magically attack). However, the spellcaster must still win a psychic contest to oblige the demon of obeying him; alternately, whoever meets the demon's eyes would be psychically touched by the demon's mind, and if loosing a psychic combat would become his thrall (so the demon can ask to destroy the pentacle to release him). On the other hand, humans and other normal/mortal creatures cannot initiate spiritual/psychic combat (although a new spell could be designed that allows a spellcaster to enter into psychic combat with an outerplanar creature). Note also, that psychic combat is probably beyond the dumb mind of most lesser fiends.

Basically, spiritual/psychic combat is treated like normal melee combat, but with different BtH, AC, HPs, etc. Something like:
Mental BtH: [Related ability (modifier): Int.] Clerics and wizards have a mental-BtH equal to the fighter's (normal) BtH. Druids, illusionists, monks and paladins have a mental-BtH equal to the cleric's (normal) BtH. All other classes have a mental-BtH equal to the wizard's (normal) BtH.
Mental Dmg: [Related ability (modifier): Int.] Clerics and wizards deal a base 1d6 psychic dmg. Druids, illusionists, monks and paladins deal a base 1d4 psychic dmg. All other classes deal a base 1d2 psychic dmg. Some focus items (such as a cleric's consecrated holy symbol or wizard's attuned staff) may act like psychic weapons, so the character would deal more dmg (increase the die by one or two steps, so for example a cleric using his holy symbol would do 1d8 of dmg while a paladin using the same holy symbol would deal 1d6 of dmg). And of course there may exist magical items that acts as weapons in psychic combat (for example, maybe a holy avenger sword enables to deal normal weapon damage in psychic combat against fiends).
Mental AC: [Related ability (modifier): Wis.] Base 10. There exists no psychic armors per se (unless the CK invents a magical item acting like a psychic armor; most likely some sort of amulet). Some items may provide a bonus to mental-AC, an holy symbol may provide a bonus against enemies of the faith, a ring of protection may also add its bonus to the mental-AC. Some class features may be extended to the mental-AC, such as the paladin's +2 save bonus, or the monk's AC bonus.
Mental HPs: [Related ability (modifier): Cha.] Clerics and wizards have d8 mental hit-dice. Druids, illusionists, monks and paladins have d6 mental hit-dice. All other classes have d4 mental hit-dice. Mental hit-points somewhat represent will and freedom of choice. Rarely a character will die from reaching zero hp; only against greater fiends or artifacts a mental combat could end in death (from heart attack) or feeblemind state, and this should require to fail a saving throw upon reaching zero mental hp. In most cases the victim should be dazzled and loose control of himself; the victor may be entitled to order the character to do things. Maybe this would act like a powerful Charm spell, rarely if ever as a Dominate spell.

Here is a table of possible effects of losing a spiritual/psychic combat (borrowed from this website). This should require a saving throw, that if failed will give the result sought, otherwise with a successful save the victim is just unable to decide to do anything for 1d6 rounds (then remained fatigued until having enough rest of psychic healing):

-- Soul Scare (CL=2): As Fear spell

-- Soul Compel (CL=4): As Suggestion spell

-- Soul Stun (CL=4): Stunned 2d4 rounds

-- Soul Bruise (CL=4): Temporarily lowers Intelligence and Willpower by 2 points for 2d6 hours

-- Soul Command (CL=8): As Domination spell

-- Soul Warp (CL=6): Inflicts a form of insanity (choose from your favorite table)

-- Soul Switch (CL=8): Minds exchange bodies (best if combat winner's body is imprisoned in pentacle or whatever).

-- Soul Search (CL=6): Search opponent's mind and memory, can learn history, desires, true name, etc., nothing can be hidden

-- Soul Wound (CL=8): Permanently lowers Intelligence and Willpower by 1 point

-- Soul Meld (CL=8): Two souls within one body, losing soul does not know about 2nd soul present

-- Soul Containment (CL=14): Forces soul into an object, can be used to create special magic items

-- Soul Banish (CL=12): Soul banished from body, becoming a free spirit

-- Soul Slumber (CL=6): Sleep for 1 month, cannot be awakened short of a Wish spell.

-- Soul Slavery (CL=16): Victim becomes a total slave to the victor in every way

-- Soul Death (CL=20): Permanent death, no resurrection is possible short of a Wish spell.

(Not too sure about the CL, which represent both the victor's minimal HD necessary, or CL for the victor to achieve the effect with a Siege check, and the victim's saving throw CL.)
[BTW: if all of this could make it (at least the idea if not the mechanics) into the CKG that would be a great thing!]
_________________
Homebrews Wiki a list of campaign settings on the web.

[Shinydemon]

Turanil,

This is freakin awesome. Dangerous Journeys has something like this that was a huge addition to the game at my table. It also seems less cheesy than psionics. I like the idea of two mages (or clerics, or whatever) locked in a battle of wills. Any fan of David Eddings should appreciate your post.

Jai
_________________
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.

[jamesmishler]

Turanil,

Very cool! This is very similar to what I have done with psychic powers for the Wilderlands of High Adventure. Psychics in that system are the most proficient at spirit combat, followed by wizards and clerics, and then so on, much as you have done. You can see some hint of this in the Mycretian classes spirit-projection gifts included in XXXI. My version of psychic spirit combat works mostly like that in David Gemmell's books, or perhaps like the combat between the sorcerers in Big Trouble in Little China; it looks in the mind's eye and in the spirit world like an actual physical combat between spirits, though to those who cannot see into the spirit world, like in Conan the Destroyer, all they see is two wizards staring at each other, until one falls...
_________________
James Mishler

Main Man, Adventure Games Publishing
jamesagp1@gmail.com
http://adventuregamespublishing.blogspot.com/
http://jamesmishler.blogspot.com

[Turanil]

Thanks for the interest!

So, both of you like the idea of wizards engaged in spiritual combat? Well, I first said that no class would be able to initiate such kind of mind battles; wizards and clerics are already two powerful classes, and would become overpowered if I gave them this. I originally thought that only some greater demons, creatures like mind-flayers, and some artifacts would be able to initiate a psychic/spiritual combat. On the other hand, I could create a new class that could initiate psychic/spiritual combat...

So, rather than doing a psionicist class, which doesn't sound true heroic fantasy to me, I am thinking of maybe doing a homebrew "WARLOCK" class. I am thinking of basing it on the Sha'ir (AD&D2e Al Qadim):

-- Things I don't like with the Sha'ir as is: focusing exclusively on oriental genies may not fit all campaigns; they are almost helpless in a fight yet can potentially cast spells all day long (i.e.: ask for spells whenever they want, takes 1d6 + spell level in rounds to get the spell, with a chance for failure).

-- Warlocks would get EPP, BtH, hit-dice, weapons and armors of wizards. Charisma as prime requirement. For spiritual/psychic combat they would be the best: mental-BtH = level (where cleric and wizards would now get level -1), base mental damage begins at 1d6 and improves at higher levels, mental-AC = monk's normal AC, mental hit-dice are d10, and they can initiate psychic/spiritual combat where other classes cannot. THEN, warlocks would function as the Sha'ir class with the following modifications: spells would cost them 1 mental-hp per spell level (when their familiar successfuly get them); they would be able to summon fiends, having to psychically/spiritually subdue them, with a bonus if they give them some sort of payment.

So this warlock class would look like a demonist of sorts, although not required to rely on demons for their powers (except maybe for the familiar akin to a quasit or imp). They could initiate psychic/spiritual combat with anyone, but all classes have a chance to fight back, with clerics and wizards having the best defense. Then, warlocks would have some versatility in being able to cast a few spells. Some rules for psychic/spiritual combat would have to be devised (especially when it interacts with physical or magical combat), as well as mental-hp recovery rules (get back with a night of sleep?).

What do you think?

BTW: Wilderlands of High Adventure sounds interesting, but I couldn't find it on the internet, except for a few announcements on rpg.net and the like.
_________________
Homebrews Wiki a list of campaign settings on the web.

[Catweazle]

This has an awful lot of promise. I particularly like how it ties strongly to charisma, which makes a lot of sense to me. I hope I can playtest it for you soon, and I'lll let you know how it turns out.
_________________
History teaches us that men behave wisely once they've exhausted all other alternatives.

[Turanil]

Catweazle wrote:
This has an awful lot of promise. I particularly like how it ties strongly to charisma, which makes a lot of sense to me. I hope I can playtest it for you soon, and I'lll let you know how it turns out.

Cool! I am looking forward to hear how it works!
_________________
Homebrews Wiki a list of campaign settings on the web.

[Shinydemon]

I guess I was thinking only of mental battles between spellcasters and maybe monks. Others would not be "enlightened" to the reality of mental combat. As in "you can't have a battle of wits with and unarmed person". but a seperate class seem cool to. I would look for something other than warlock though. I have always seen warlocks more akin to the elements. That being said, I can't think of anything better.

Jai
_________________
Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.

[Turanil]

Well, my fluff for spiritual/psychic combat, is that everyone should be able to resist someone trying to invade his/her mind. Clerics and wizards are better at it, because they focus on the spiritual and the occult. However, even if everybody is able to resist mind intrusion to some extent (most classes have few mental-hp and low retaliation ability), only some rare supernatural creatures and the warlock class can actually enter someone's mind, but at a risk (the fact that the intruded mind can resist and fight back the intruding mind). Compared to the psionicist class of old, non-psionic users are thus less vulnerable, without that dubious concept of closed or open mind.
_________________
Homebrews Wiki a list of campaign settings on the web.

[serleran]

I think it represents a certain flavor of magic use for a certain type of setting (ie, Sword and Sorcery) and that is cool. I'll have to see how it plays out.