Newbie and The World's Largest Dungeon.

NulSyn · Post by **NulSyn** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:34 pm

Hello everyone! New guy here.

I recently downloaded the quickstart rules and was wondering some things. Has anyone on the forums here ran the world's largest dungeon using C&C?

I originially was gonna try it with Hackmaster, but WLD is already a complex dungeon and the HM ruleset world just make it overly complex. I also don;t want to use 3.x because I don't like how it makes me forget to role-play, and makes me roll-play.

So has anyone done it? Anyone thought about it? Any info such as 3.x conversion charts or such? Any problems you can see in the future if I were to buy C&C and try running WLD with it?

Give me your thoughts, and treat this as a sell me thread with the suggestion of using WLD in your reasonsing.

Thanks everyone! And here's to hoping C&C is everything I think it just might be!

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:12 pm

I have this in my notes:

Quote:
Hello, my name is Chris Rutkowsky and I did the conversion of the Mysterious Tower from d20 to Castles and Crusades, and wrote an original module for C&C for Goodman Games.

Joe forwarded me an email in which a person wanted a guideline for converting a certain module (Crypt of the Devil Litch) to C&C. I personally don't have this module, however I can give you guys a quick guideline that I used myself to make things for Mysterious Tower work for C&C.

The easiest thing to convert is the monsters. All you need to do is look up the same monster in the C&C Monsters and Treasure book! You can mark the pages in the module and your M&T book with color coded sticky notes so that you always know what page to turn to in a hurry and don't have to bother with making notes.

If the monster you want to convert is not in the Monsters and Treasure Book, I would consult an older edition of D&D-- my personal favorite being the Basic D&D Rules Cyclopedia. If you don't have it you can buy the pdf for 5 dollars at rpgnow.com or buy a used one on ebay.

The monsters presented in the RC are 90% compatable with C&C rules. The only thing that you would need to actively convert is armor class and saving throws. To convert D&DRC armor class to C&C, simply subtract the given AC from 19. Remember that subtracting a negative number is the same thing as addition. So a D&D monster listed as AC 5 would be AC 14 in C&C (19-5= 14). A monster with AC -3 would become AC 22 in C&C (19+3 =22). Saves are easier to convert. If the creature saves as a fighter, thief, dwarf, or halfling it is Physical prime. If it saves as an elf, cleric, or wizard it is mental prime. Use the creatures HD as the bonus to all rolls (including saves, attacks, etc). Simple, eh?

If using 1st or 2nd Edition AD&D as a resource, armor class is also easy to manage. Simply subtract the listed AC from 20. So an AC 5 creature would be AC 15 in C&C and an AC -3 character would be AC 23 in C&C. Saves convert the same as in basic D&D.

If you want to convert DIRECTLY from d20 system, use the same Hit Dice and die type as the creature already has, but get rid of the bonus hit points. So a creature listed as 5d10+15 HD in d20 would convert to 5d10 in C&C. You should also take away any bonuses to the damage dice listed. If the bonus listed is higher than the die, just make the attack use the die type, and double it. So a creature listed as doing d4+5 damage, change it to 2d4. If a creature had d6+3 dmg, just convert it to d6. These changes are because hit points and damage are harder to come by in C&C than they are in d20. If a creature's good saves are FORT or REF, it is Physical prime. If it is WILL the creature is mental prime. If they are all good saves, it is physical and mental prime.

Converting Saves

Older editions of D&D had 5 saving throws. C&C has 6 and they are just about the same, except the C&C saves are directly linked to stats. The old D&D saves were as follows and converts to C&C as presented below:

Paralysis-- Str

Breath Weapon (and area of affect spells like fireball)-- Dex

Poison, Death-- Con

Wands, Staves, Wands (and Illusions)-- INT

Spells (except illusions and area of affect spells like fireball and charm or sleep spells)-- WIS

Enchantment spells (sleep, charm, etc) and fear= CHA

Converting d20 saves is a little trickier and involves a judgement call by the CK converting it. You just have to use some logic as to which converts to what.

FORT-- STR or CON (depending on the effect)

REF-- DEX

WILL--INT, WIS, or CHA (Depending on the source of the spell/effect, CK's call)

Converting DCs to Challenge Levels.

I use a simple formula for this. I assume that DC 15 is the average DC of a check in d20. In C&C, the average difficulty of a task is CL 0. So every 1 the DC is higher than 15 in D20, the CL is 1 higher. So a DC 19 check would convert to a CL 4 check. For every 1 the DC is lower than 15 in D&D, the CL is -1. So a DC 12 check would be CL -3 in C&C. The CL of course is added to the base of 12/18 depending on if the character is prime in the required stat.

Converting Skill Checks

Simply make the skill check into an attribute check for the skill that is normally tied to that attribute. You may want to give certain classes a bonus in this, or even restrict who can try based on class. For instance a Search check would simply convert to an INT check, which anybody can do, but a Survival check to track somebody should be limited to rangers or maybe druids (with a penalty as it is not a class ability for them).

Converting damage from traps--

If the trap is related to a spell, look up the C&C equivilent and adjust the effect accordingly.

If the damage is related to a weapon, look up that weapons damage in C&C and convert it.

If damage is listed as a die with a damage bonus exceeding the die types, add another die to the damage instead. If it has a damage bonus less than the die type, get rid of the bonus damage.

So if a trap is listed as doing 5d6+7 damage, convert it to 6d6 damage for C&C. If it does 5d6+4 damage, it just does 5d6.

Well, that is all that comes to mind for now. Let me know if you think of any other questions about conversion.

I also have a pdf by Jason Vey that I forgot where I got from. I could probably e-mail it to you if yo ulike.
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NulSyn · Post by **NulSyn** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:56 pm

Wow now thats very handy! Thank you! And yes I would love the Jason Vey info too. PM sent.

NulSyn · Post by **NulSyn** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:37 pm

Having read both the quoted material and the Vey pdf now, it seems to me that conversion is extremely simple. Also seems that "on the fly" decisions wouldn't be game breaking either, actually they sound fitting.

Hmmm...I like what I see so far. Yay! Now once I get the full C&C books I'll be able to use WLD for something other than a nightstand.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:13 am

Welcome to the Crusade, NulSyn!

Enjoy the game!!

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NulSyn · Post by **NulSyn** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:02 am

Rhuvein wrote:
Welcome to the Crusade, NulSyn!

Enjoy the game!!

Thankee Kindly, Rhuvein!

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:29 am

Rhuvein wrote:
Welcome to the Crusade, NulSyn!

Enjoy the game!!

I second the welcome!

I hope you enjoy running the 3e addies as much as I have. I've run a little of DCC #44: Dreaming Caverns of the Duergar by Goodman Games using Jason Vey's guidelines.

BTW, is that a hungry, hungry hippo?
Happy gaming,

Zudrak
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:30 am

I find it amusing about conversion, but whatever. Welcome to the Crusade.

NulSyn · Post by **NulSyn** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:23 am

serleran wrote:
I find it amusing about conversion, but whatever. Welcome to the Crusade.

Well I came across the World's Largest Dungeon for $10 about 6 months after its release, and well I want to use it, but seriously don;t like what 3.x does to my style
Zudrak: The hippo is always hungry!

BASH MAN · Post by **BASH MAN** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:51 am

NulSyn wrote:
Wow now thats very handy! Thank you! And yes I would love the Jason Vey info too. PM sent.

Glad it was of use. That is probably one of my most quoted posts of any message board. I originally posted it to the Goodman Games boards at Joe Goodman's requiest for people wanting convert their own DCCs to C&C...
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:21 pm

BASH MAN wrote:
Glad it was of use. That is probably one of my most quoted posts of any message board. I originally posted it to the Goodman Games boards at Joe Goodman's requiest for people wanting convert their own DCCs to C&C...

I'm pretty certain that was where I ripped it off from. And thanks.
_________________
The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

Tropico · Post by **Tropico** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:31 pm

NulSyn wrote:
Having read both the quoted material and the Vey pdf now, it seems to me that conversion is extremely simple.

It is indeed I read those two sources as well, and the first couple sessions I dedicated myself to prep ahead of time, going over everything and actually writing down the 'translated' stat blocks for each monster in my module. That was easy enough, but now I barely even do that and just run it straight off the original material. Use the monsters straight Hit Dice for their level, check if it saves as Physical Mental or both, and adjust DC's down by 3 for Primes and up by 3 for Non-Primes. Very easy stuff.

NulSyn wrote:
Also seems that "on the fly" decisions wouldn't be game breaking either, actually they sound fitting.

Seriously, if you enjoy coming up with stuff 'on the fly' be it mechanic or fluff, and if you like feeling that you can tone the difficulty of the situation up or down easily as you see fit, you're not gonna go wrong. The game is practically made for that.

NulSyn · Post by **NulSyn** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:45 pm

Tropico wrote:
Seriously, if you enjoy coming up with stuff 'on the fly' be it mechanic or fluff, and if you like feeling that you can tone the difficulty of the situation up or down easily as you see fit, you're not gonna go wrong. The game is practically made for that.

"On the fly" is the only way I run, with the exception of the occasional pre-made adventure.

Now to find some monies...

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:23 am

NulSyn wrote:
"On the fly" is the only way I run, with the exception of the occasional pre-made adventure.

Now to find some monies...

C&C is about the easiest on the wallet out of RPGs currently running.
_________________
The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:56 am

_________________
The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

NulSyn · Post by **NulSyn** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:24 pm

I thought I would let everyone know, that my WLD C&C game will be starting within a couple of months. When it does get going I plan to post how it goes on here.

With the way conversion works so easily I have decided to convert most monsters "on the fly" assuming they are not already in Monster&Treasure. However for the more powerfully named or unique NPCs I have decided to go ahead and convert them and keep them in a folder. This has allowed me to take some liberties with the over arching story. I plan on only using the story as an outline, and going more "on the fly" even with it.

I don't plan on them being able to make it all the way through(could be surprised). I am looking at the WLD as more of a game setting, than a dungeon......if that makes any sense at all.
I even thought of tieing it in to one of my fave Ad&d settings Planescape. Maybe the Lady of Pain's Maze?

Anyways more to come.....eventually.
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