New around here (at least as a registered member, i've been browsing around for quite a while), so first of all, greetings to everybody !
And by the way, apologies for my english, it's not really my mothertongue, so i'll do my best ! (i think i'll put something about that in my signature soon, anyway..)
And now about the topic's subject:
I've been running a Spycraft campaign for about a year and a half now, using a mix between v.1 and v.2, in a gritty style with rare but intense hollywood action bits from time to time.
Lately, as we are talking about Agents from level 14 to 18 here, our table really got sick even of my tweaked down system: definitely FAR TOO HEAVY AND NUMBER CRUNCHING.
We were desperate to the point to give the whole thing up, my players being not to fond about system changes, but in a last streak of hope, decided to give the SIEGE engine a try (my first try at it anyway, my copy of C&C sleeping on the shelf for 6 month then, still waiting to be used).
The conversion to SIEGE was done, including special combat and class rules, in about 4 hours !!!
We're still working at the fine tuning, but even i can't believe how well it works !
So, before i go into painful details, i wanted to know if anyone here is even loosely interested about this, but i must admit i'm eager to discuss some of the options available to that kind of adaptation (leading also towards Stargate D20, and every other modern D20 setting in general).
So if i should go on about the crunchy technique, just let me know !
PS: And i'm just glad to finally join you in here !
[SPYCRAFT with the SIEGE] HI EVERYONE !
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Saarlander
- Ungern
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:00 am
Re: [SPYCRAFT with the SIEGE] HI EVERYONE !
Saarlander wrote:
The conversion to SIEGE was done, including special combat and class rules, in about 4 hours !!!
Whoah. Very nice. Gonna put your conversion notes up on the 'net?
Re: [SPYCRAFT with the SIEGE] HI EVERYONE !
Saarlander wrote:
New around here (at least as a registered member, i've been browsing around for quite a while), so first of all, greetings to everybody !
Welcome Saarlander! Glad to have you with us!
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
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Coleston the Cavalier
- Unkbartig
- Posts: 880
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- Location: Herrin, IL
- Contact:
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Saarlander
- Ungern
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:00 am
Thanks for all the welcomes, that's just plain nice
Well then, it's getting a bit late here in europe, but i'll at least give out some details about how we did the whole thing...
First and foremost, there's one bit we still have to work out, it's the whole leveling thing, since we did a raw conversion from already quite stuffed out characters... but we're working on it.
So, what we did have as a start was:
One Wheelman 16/Soldier 2, codename: Crashtest
One Faceman 16/Scientist 2, codenam: Bast (note, Bast is a SHE, don't wonder if i use female gender about her, so)
One Fixer 14, codename: Wire
I gave the codenames for any future reference, just in case, and because i like my players and wanted to give them some credit !
Fundamental Needs
We tried the SIEGE to get rid of all the different sort of number crunching there is in Spycraft (Saves, Skills, Synergies, Culture and Science foci, Department boni, so on...).
The prime (hehe) idea was to have a system allowing us to referee anything depending on context: Crashtest was trained in military progression and coverts ops, but not as a burglar, which was Wire's domain. Bast is a socialite, a Ph.D in psychology and profiling, and a decent driver, but not a stuntwoman... At times, the whole skill thing worked out just fine (although there always was heavy math involved somewhere), sometimes it was just plain stupid (the Wheelman being unable to stick even to simpliest cover identity due to lack of Bluff ranks, for example, while the Faceman could make believe she could tell a V16 engine from a TDI although she hadn't a clue if we followed the book...)
So i already knew i would like the SIEGE because the players would simply add their level to rolls about things they really knew, and not add it to the rest, simply depending on context.
So instead of an artificial set of skills or abilities, i simply borrowed the Fields of Expertise from good old James Bond RPG, and it works.
Now Bast IS a Psychology Ph.D, the Wheelman had an Assault Squad Training and the Fixer has Burglary.... So far, so good.
Classes, Levels and Departments
Having the Fields of Expertise to balance the whole assets, i decided to simply discard the multi-classing, so everyone stuck to their core class and had some abilities that added a flavor to it.
Departments being technically the same as races in this game, i went for the KISS rule and only kept the idea of a Department Bonus, related to everything concerning the Department.
Crashtest was an Urban Assault, so he just kept his level dependent bonus to prepared combat actions.
Bast was a Power Brokerage, so i simply decided her department bonus would apply to cover identity maintaining and social analysis.
Wire was a Black Op, which meant Vitality and Wound boni. Just fine, keep it !
Attributes, BtH, Initiative, Defense, and all the numbers...
- Attributes were kept at same scores, but i now use the C&C table for the mods, so everything went generally down by 1. No problem.
No one being a Basement Department agent here (which is the equivalent of old D20 human race advantages), every one got two Primes, all chosen easily (one obvious from the class, the other came quite quickly)
- Bonus to Hit: well, it's supposed to be a dangerous world, so i stuck to the old values from Spycraft. Killing is easy, especially...
-... with new Defense calculation: i decided to go down to the bone, forfeiting any complex class table for this. Since armor is mostly damage reduction in Spycraft, they will come in handy now: Defense is 10+DEX mod+(1/2 level). Getting hit is easy, yeah ! And just so is it also for NPCs. Now i finally have my Agents look for cover and tactics, just as i want to. No more running under a hail of bullets unharmed. It's espionnage, damn it, not The Matrix !
- Vitality and Wounds: That one was easy, since i had already grittied my game down; there's 1, 2, or 3 VP per level (depending on the class's original HD, be it d8, d10 or d12), plus ONE TIME the CON mod. So except for the occasionnal CON mod change, they stayed just the same.
- Initiative: Spycraft classes have such high modifiers to Init it was a joke to roll it at high levels. So down the sewer with it, now Initiative is 1D10. Period. Only some very special abilities modify it, and now the highest Init in the party still is Bast (being a very aware and trained person in matter of quick reaction) with 1D10+3. Now my agents finally can be in a damn crappy situation again when they are at gunpoint and not ready for it, even with low level street thughs. It's espionnage honey, not Flash against the Silver Surfer !
- Finally, since the SIEGE engine is all Attribute mod+level thing, Education and Inspiration got flushed away in a blink.
Action Dice & Stress
My two major counters in the game could stay just as they were (and now action dice really count again, for every one)
Note: i use my own Stress Point system, directly inspired by Star Wars D20's dark side system: the players get more and more stress from unsolved problems and responsibilities, comparing the number to their WIS score. For every point above half their WIS, i get them to reroll a good die once per session (a stressed agent risks always to screw up sometimes), every point above their WIS has them risking to suffer a nervous breakdown. Plain and simple.
One thing i took from the Education/Inspiration idea was that now, one could always spend an Action Dice to add their level to a check when they normally wouldn't. So the Faceman can occasionnaly make a stunt with a motorcyle, or the Wheelman get a glimpse of an enemy's intentions... Done.
Abilities and Feats
That's where i think the most complex work needs to be done to get a real working system online.
We had it easy, the characters had been played for a while, so we just had to go through the sheet, and pick out what was most "signature" of the character.
Class abilities stayed when they were something really needed (such as the Fixer's Procure or Instant Gadget abilities, or the Wheelman's That's Impossible, and the Faceman's Quick Change or Thousand Faces): actually quite similar to any class ability (or even spells, with the x times per session for some of them), we just had to keep them.
Feats were a bit more tricky, and most of the "widgets" were simply forfeited... mostly, they permitted to add some Fields of Expertise or some Abilities to the characters.
Also, i added one column to the new SIEGE sheets, which was Style (relating loosely to the Sytle Feats from Spycraft), simply using the keywords of most feats to know when an Agent could add his level to a check (the Wheelman for example is Credible, so i simply consider he adds his level when trying to fake an innocent civilian cover identity... the Faceman has The Look, so she starts high when it comes to beauty contest, so on...)
Specific Tidbits
Some things certainly still need work, which we will see in play.
Resources and Gadgets for example having already been heavily revamped at our table, it just works fine for now, so we let it come as it will...
I also made up a system to circonvein a major difficulty since we play more in a TV-Show pattern than a Mission Module thing, about the Backgrounds from Spycraft, using some easy Weakness mechanic (when a weakness is concerned, a character doesn't add his level to checks, no matter what, except for spent Action Dice), finally akin to the James Bond RPG Idiosyncrasy system...
There are probably plenty of questions and things left open about this conversion, but for now my players are happy, and with the NPC/Monster system from the SIEGE, i certainly am (having to know only the Primes and Level of my NPCs, and a rough idea about their Expertises, mostly common sense...)
So if you have some questions, comments, and on, please just tell me !
Working with SIEGE has litterally rejuvated my Spycraft game, and from a campaign i was eager to end, i now am on the verge of plenty new adventures !!! So every criticism and/or help is just welcome !
Well then, it's getting a bit late here in europe, but i'll at least give out some details about how we did the whole thing...
First and foremost, there's one bit we still have to work out, it's the whole leveling thing, since we did a raw conversion from already quite stuffed out characters... but we're working on it.
So, what we did have as a start was:
One Wheelman 16/Soldier 2, codename: Crashtest
One Faceman 16/Scientist 2, codenam: Bast (note, Bast is a SHE, don't wonder if i use female gender about her, so)
One Fixer 14, codename: Wire
I gave the codenames for any future reference, just in case, and because i like my players and wanted to give them some credit !
Fundamental Needs
We tried the SIEGE to get rid of all the different sort of number crunching there is in Spycraft (Saves, Skills, Synergies, Culture and Science foci, Department boni, so on...).
The prime (hehe) idea was to have a system allowing us to referee anything depending on context: Crashtest was trained in military progression and coverts ops, but not as a burglar, which was Wire's domain. Bast is a socialite, a Ph.D in psychology and profiling, and a decent driver, but not a stuntwoman... At times, the whole skill thing worked out just fine (although there always was heavy math involved somewhere), sometimes it was just plain stupid (the Wheelman being unable to stick even to simpliest cover identity due to lack of Bluff ranks, for example, while the Faceman could make believe she could tell a V16 engine from a TDI although she hadn't a clue if we followed the book...)
So i already knew i would like the SIEGE because the players would simply add their level to rolls about things they really knew, and not add it to the rest, simply depending on context.
So instead of an artificial set of skills or abilities, i simply borrowed the Fields of Expertise from good old James Bond RPG, and it works.
Now Bast IS a Psychology Ph.D, the Wheelman had an Assault Squad Training and the Fixer has Burglary.... So far, so good.
Classes, Levels and Departments
Having the Fields of Expertise to balance the whole assets, i decided to simply discard the multi-classing, so everyone stuck to their core class and had some abilities that added a flavor to it.
Departments being technically the same as races in this game, i went for the KISS rule and only kept the idea of a Department Bonus, related to everything concerning the Department.
Crashtest was an Urban Assault, so he just kept his level dependent bonus to prepared combat actions.
Bast was a Power Brokerage, so i simply decided her department bonus would apply to cover identity maintaining and social analysis.
Wire was a Black Op, which meant Vitality and Wound boni. Just fine, keep it !
Attributes, BtH, Initiative, Defense, and all the numbers...
- Attributes were kept at same scores, but i now use the C&C table for the mods, so everything went generally down by 1. No problem.
No one being a Basement Department agent here (which is the equivalent of old D20 human race advantages), every one got two Primes, all chosen easily (one obvious from the class, the other came quite quickly)
- Bonus to Hit: well, it's supposed to be a dangerous world, so i stuck to the old values from Spycraft. Killing is easy, especially...
-... with new Defense calculation: i decided to go down to the bone, forfeiting any complex class table for this. Since armor is mostly damage reduction in Spycraft, they will come in handy now: Defense is 10+DEX mod+(1/2 level). Getting hit is easy, yeah ! And just so is it also for NPCs. Now i finally have my Agents look for cover and tactics, just as i want to. No more running under a hail of bullets unharmed. It's espionnage, damn it, not The Matrix !
- Vitality and Wounds: That one was easy, since i had already grittied my game down; there's 1, 2, or 3 VP per level (depending on the class's original HD, be it d8, d10 or d12), plus ONE TIME the CON mod. So except for the occasionnal CON mod change, they stayed just the same.
- Initiative: Spycraft classes have such high modifiers to Init it was a joke to roll it at high levels. So down the sewer with it, now Initiative is 1D10. Period. Only some very special abilities modify it, and now the highest Init in the party still is Bast (being a very aware and trained person in matter of quick reaction) with 1D10+3. Now my agents finally can be in a damn crappy situation again when they are at gunpoint and not ready for it, even with low level street thughs. It's espionnage honey, not Flash against the Silver Surfer !
- Finally, since the SIEGE engine is all Attribute mod+level thing, Education and Inspiration got flushed away in a blink.
Action Dice & Stress
My two major counters in the game could stay just as they were (and now action dice really count again, for every one)
Note: i use my own Stress Point system, directly inspired by Star Wars D20's dark side system: the players get more and more stress from unsolved problems and responsibilities, comparing the number to their WIS score. For every point above half their WIS, i get them to reroll a good die once per session (a stressed agent risks always to screw up sometimes), every point above their WIS has them risking to suffer a nervous breakdown. Plain and simple.
One thing i took from the Education/Inspiration idea was that now, one could always spend an Action Dice to add their level to a check when they normally wouldn't. So the Faceman can occasionnaly make a stunt with a motorcyle, or the Wheelman get a glimpse of an enemy's intentions... Done.
Abilities and Feats
That's where i think the most complex work needs to be done to get a real working system online.
We had it easy, the characters had been played for a while, so we just had to go through the sheet, and pick out what was most "signature" of the character.
Class abilities stayed when they were something really needed (such as the Fixer's Procure or Instant Gadget abilities, or the Wheelman's That's Impossible, and the Faceman's Quick Change or Thousand Faces): actually quite similar to any class ability (or even spells, with the x times per session for some of them), we just had to keep them.
Feats were a bit more tricky, and most of the "widgets" were simply forfeited... mostly, they permitted to add some Fields of Expertise or some Abilities to the characters.
Also, i added one column to the new SIEGE sheets, which was Style (relating loosely to the Sytle Feats from Spycraft), simply using the keywords of most feats to know when an Agent could add his level to a check (the Wheelman for example is Credible, so i simply consider he adds his level when trying to fake an innocent civilian cover identity... the Faceman has The Look, so she starts high when it comes to beauty contest, so on...)
Specific Tidbits
Some things certainly still need work, which we will see in play.
Resources and Gadgets for example having already been heavily revamped at our table, it just works fine for now, so we let it come as it will...
I also made up a system to circonvein a major difficulty since we play more in a TV-Show pattern than a Mission Module thing, about the Backgrounds from Spycraft, using some easy Weakness mechanic (when a weakness is concerned, a character doesn't add his level to checks, no matter what, except for spent Action Dice), finally akin to the James Bond RPG Idiosyncrasy system...
There are probably plenty of questions and things left open about this conversion, but for now my players are happy, and with the NPC/Monster system from the SIEGE, i certainly am (having to know only the Primes and Level of my NPCs, and a rough idea about their Expertises, mostly common sense...)
So if you have some questions, comments, and on, please just tell me !
Working with SIEGE has litterally rejuvated my Spycraft game, and from a campaign i was eager to end, i now am on the verge of plenty new adventures !!! So every criticism and/or help is just welcome !
Wow
Looks pretty fantastic. I have never been a fan of the Class/Level paradigm for modern games, but I may have to give it another look for this. The time/effort saved with the Siege Engine (esp. with your Fields of Expertise tweak) changes things a bit and in a good way. Thanks for posting.
~AoB
_________________
~Adaen of Bridgewater, www.highadventuregames.com
~AoB
_________________
~Adaen of Bridgewater, www.highadventuregames.com
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Breakdaddy
- Greater Lore Drake
- Posts: 3875
- Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:00 am
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Saarlander
- Ungern
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:00 am
Thanks for the feedback !
If you have some more questions, just go on.
What i'll add for now, having done some write-ups for next session, is that NPC generating is like a dream now !
All i have to do to create a shaddy journalist as a foil for the next game is knowing that:
He is a Journalist Level 6, his primes being DEX, WIS and CHA !!
Not being a fighter, he gets only half his level as BtH, and the usual 2 Vitality Points per level from the field agent classes (like Pointman, Faceman)
And as a journalist, i know i can roll his SIEGE checks whith his level as a bonus every time it seems logical, according to his profession and background, that he knows what he's doing !
Ah, and he is a foil, so he'll get his Loyalty score, and my call is he gets a 12.
Done !!!
Donovan Creary, Journalist 6, DEX/WIS/CHA, Vitality 12
Attack +3 (Hand to hand 1d4) (Beretta 1d10)
Loyalty 12
Whoa, i still can't fully believe this !
Sure we'll be playtesting all this some more, since the campaign goes on, and if some people are interested, i can even keep up an irregular topic here to tell you about any new solutions or difficulties we meet in the way.
EDIT: Mmh, just thought about something i like about the new system too: Preparation & Training can now be handled quite simply; let's say the Agents going to be dropped over some foreign country and have to travel through tropical marshlands for next mission, but none of them is trained in skydiving and survival trekking in the southern hemisphere...
Well, if there's enough time, their superiors might just have them go over the basic routines for THAT jump and THAT trek, so they are considered trained for this one purpose; which means they CAN add their levels to their SIEGE checks for this time during the chute maneuvering and the marshland traveling.
Now add a little more fun, and the time is too short for BOTH trainings, so the Agents may choose, but there will be some point during either the jump or the journey where they can forget about their level bonus... newbies in the jungle, here we go !!!
If you have some more questions, just go on.
What i'll add for now, having done some write-ups for next session, is that NPC generating is like a dream now !
All i have to do to create a shaddy journalist as a foil for the next game is knowing that:
He is a Journalist Level 6, his primes being DEX, WIS and CHA !!
Not being a fighter, he gets only half his level as BtH, and the usual 2 Vitality Points per level from the field agent classes (like Pointman, Faceman)
And as a journalist, i know i can roll his SIEGE checks whith his level as a bonus every time it seems logical, according to his profession and background, that he knows what he's doing !
Ah, and he is a foil, so he'll get his Loyalty score, and my call is he gets a 12.
Done !!!
Donovan Creary, Journalist 6, DEX/WIS/CHA, Vitality 12
Attack +3 (Hand to hand 1d4) (Beretta 1d10)
Loyalty 12
Whoa, i still can't fully believe this !
Sure we'll be playtesting all this some more, since the campaign goes on, and if some people are interested, i can even keep up an irregular topic here to tell you about any new solutions or difficulties we meet in the way.
EDIT: Mmh, just thought about something i like about the new system too: Preparation & Training can now be handled quite simply; let's say the Agents going to be dropped over some foreign country and have to travel through tropical marshlands for next mission, but none of them is trained in skydiving and survival trekking in the southern hemisphere...
Well, if there's enough time, their superiors might just have them go over the basic routines for THAT jump and THAT trek, so they are considered trained for this one purpose; which means they CAN add their levels to their SIEGE checks for this time during the chute maneuvering and the marshland traveling.
Now add a little more fun, and the time is too short for BOTH trainings, so the Agents may choose, but there will be some point during either the jump or the journey where they can forget about their level bonus... newbies in the jungle, here we go !!!
Welcome Saarlander.
A really big thanks for the Spycraft stuff. I like Spycraft myself, but it always had to much numbers crunching for my taste.
Your system has promise. I especially like the Fields of Expertise idea you used from the old James Bond RPG (another of my old favorite games).
_________________
Lord Aladar
Warden of the Welk Wood
Baron of the Castles & Crusades Society
The Poster formerly known as Alwyn
Senior Gamer - Member of the Senior RPG Tour
"NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT - At least not in Yu Gi Oh"
http://www.cncsociety.org/
A really big thanks for the Spycraft stuff. I like Spycraft myself, but it always had to much numbers crunching for my taste.
Your system has promise. I especially like the Fields of Expertise idea you used from the old James Bond RPG (another of my old favorite games).
_________________
Lord Aladar
Warden of the Welk Wood
Baron of the Castles & Crusades Society
The Poster formerly known as Alwyn
Senior Gamer - Member of the Senior RPG Tour
"NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT - At least not in Yu Gi Oh"
http://www.cncsociety.org/
Lord Aladar
Warden of the Welk Wood
Baron of the Castles & Crusades Society
The Poster formerly known as Alwyn
Senior Gamer - Member of the Senior RPG Tour
"NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT - At least not in Yu Gi Oh"
http://www.cncsociety.org/
Warden of the Welk Wood
Baron of the Castles & Crusades Society
The Poster formerly known as Alwyn
Senior Gamer - Member of the Senior RPG Tour
"NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT - At least not in Yu Gi Oh"
http://www.cncsociety.org/
-
Breakdaddy
- Greater Lore Drake
- Posts: 3875
- Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:00 am
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Saarlander
- Ungern
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:00 am
Thanks everyone for the comments !
Nothing new for now, but next gaming session is tomorrow, and i'm just so lucky as to have the agents temporarly integrate official police service through agency cooperation.
So they'll go through the basics with their new superiors, a perfect time for me to go through the new game mechanics with the players and have them test it on the field (most important thing: the GRAPPLING, which in modern games that include arresting or capturing people is a fundamental of the game... and the SIEGE version is just so perfect there !)
So i'll keep the feedback up to date, and will report any new solutions or problems we found during the game.
Thanks again, and see ya.
_________________
People, i'm a German living in France, so please be forgiving about my English...
Nothing new for now, but next gaming session is tomorrow, and i'm just so lucky as to have the agents temporarly integrate official police service through agency cooperation.
So they'll go through the basics with their new superiors, a perfect time for me to go through the new game mechanics with the players and have them test it on the field (most important thing: the GRAPPLING, which in modern games that include arresting or capturing people is a fundamental of the game... and the SIEGE version is just so perfect there !)
So i'll keep the feedback up to date, and will report any new solutions or problems we found during the game.
Thanks again, and see ya.
_________________
People, i'm a German living in France, so please be forgiving about my English...
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Saarlander
- Ungern
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:00 am
Hm, second gaming night since the conversion.
Everyting was pretty smooth (and Oh so much more than peviously), although we had very few rolls this time.
But my agents went undercover as cops (and they'll have to stick to it for some time), so they went through a Police Academy crash course...
I introduced them to the new SIEGE Grappling, Disarming and Tripping maneuvers with their police instructor.
The lethality of those (compared to plain old Spycraft) even for high level characters had them feel very vulnerable on the field all sudden (and quite powerful to, since it goes down to the same with their adversaries), adding a delicious gritty feeling very comfortable for a modern game.
So, SIEGE +1, Spycraft 0.
By the way, i handle Martial Arts (something pretty common in espionnage and every other action oriented modern setting) by allowing them to use another key attribute instead of Strength for their hand to hand attacks and moves (includint grappling and such), mostly depending on their martial arts style (so i have now one agent fighting with her Wisdom, and the other with his Dexterity).
Just seems to work too.
So, waiting for the next issue to show up, we still had some pretty nice chases and combat situations (with the most simple street thugs) for their first shift as coppers, and a whole lot of fun.
SIEGE seems really to handle the job well !
EDIT: And still thanks for every feedback and the nice comments ! I hope i'm not using up some forum space here just bothering around again and again with this... if i'm a nuisance, please DO tell !
_________________
People, i'm a German living in France, so please be forgiving about my English...
Everyting was pretty smooth (and Oh so much more than peviously), although we had very few rolls this time.
But my agents went undercover as cops (and they'll have to stick to it for some time), so they went through a Police Academy crash course...
I introduced them to the new SIEGE Grappling, Disarming and Tripping maneuvers with their police instructor.
The lethality of those (compared to plain old Spycraft) even for high level characters had them feel very vulnerable on the field all sudden (and quite powerful to, since it goes down to the same with their adversaries), adding a delicious gritty feeling very comfortable for a modern game.
So, SIEGE +1, Spycraft 0.
By the way, i handle Martial Arts (something pretty common in espionnage and every other action oriented modern setting) by allowing them to use another key attribute instead of Strength for their hand to hand attacks and moves (includint grappling and such), mostly depending on their martial arts style (so i have now one agent fighting with her Wisdom, and the other with his Dexterity).
Just seems to work too.
So, waiting for the next issue to show up, we still had some pretty nice chases and combat situations (with the most simple street thugs) for their first shift as coppers, and a whole lot of fun.
SIEGE seems really to handle the job well !
EDIT: And still thanks for every feedback and the nice comments ! I hope i'm not using up some forum space here just bothering around again and again with this... if i'm a nuisance, please DO tell !
_________________
People, i'm a German living in France, so please be forgiving about my English...
Saarlander wrote:
EDIT: And still thanks for every feedback and the nice comments ! I hope i'm not using up some forum space here just bothering around again and again with this... if i'm a nuisance, please DO tell !
Nuisance?! I find your endeavor one of the most interesting concepts going on here of late!
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Saarlander
- Ungern
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:00 am
Well then, thanks again... !
One of my players just reminded me a few minutes ago how good and nice this all is, but he plays a Wheelman, damn it, and would like to know, after all those foot chases, how things will go when he gets behind the wheel again !!
And i must admit i had been avoiding this one carefully since we went all SIEGE.
For now i've been thinking about something a bit "Star Wars Saga Edition"-like, where a vehicle has its own STR (power & hardiness), DEX (nimbleness & handling) and INT (internal systems & pilot assistance), and a Size, so on...
So chases and vehicular combat would mostly be blending behind classic SIEGE rolls (after all, it's the driver's actions and decisions that matter), so we could stay in just the right fast, narrative tone and pace...
Although it might work just as well that way (it always did back in my Star Wars D6 days), i still do feel a little awkward about this, so if anyone already had some experience with anything similar, i would gladly welcome some advice this time.
(And i can't possibly imaging handling the whole Muscle Car thing as... horses !!)
_________________
People, i'm a German living in France, so please be forgiving about my English...
One of my players just reminded me a few minutes ago how good and nice this all is, but he plays a Wheelman, damn it, and would like to know, after all those foot chases, how things will go when he gets behind the wheel again !!
And i must admit i had been avoiding this one carefully since we went all SIEGE.
For now i've been thinking about something a bit "Star Wars Saga Edition"-like, where a vehicle has its own STR (power & hardiness), DEX (nimbleness & handling) and INT (internal systems & pilot assistance), and a Size, so on...
So chases and vehicular combat would mostly be blending behind classic SIEGE rolls (after all, it's the driver's actions and decisions that matter), so we could stay in just the right fast, narrative tone and pace...
Although it might work just as well that way (it always did back in my Star Wars D6 days), i still do feel a little awkward about this, so if anyone already had some experience with anything similar, i would gladly welcome some advice this time.
(And i can't possibly imaging handling the whole Muscle Car thing as... horses !!)
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People, i'm a German living in France, so please be forgiving about my English...
-
Saarlander
- Ungern
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:00 am
Upping my subject once again
So here i am, back with more or less new comments to add to our ongoing Spycraft game using the SIEGE engine.
As we didn't play very much since last time i posted this (damn job schedule), not to much to add for now, but with upcoming StarSIEGE i'm waiting for, i went at least back to some self-brainstorming about SIEGE and contemporary/anticipation games....
* Still no true solution for detailed car chases and other vehicular combat:
As there wasn't any real chase scene or the like in the few games we had since then, i'm still wondering how to finally handle this...
If i do at all, and not simply go for the SIEGE checks that seem right when it comes about... Would work fine too.
* But one true revelation !!!!
As i said, maybe i'll just go for chases like i do for anything else; because man, they were SOOOOOOOO right in the fighter topic: Who needs Feats or Crunchies when you got the SIEGE !!!!
Last game, my players decided, on the spot, and to my own surprise, to make a flash break-in to the Langley CIA home base, because they had some intelligence issues they simply wanted to clear. Here and now. (after all, we're talking about a team of three level 16 to 18 Agents here... Hey, they should be able to try that, at least !)
And they did... And I did !
I had nothing prepared about Langley's security, no NPCs at hand, no floorplans, nothing.
I went at it on the go... with a smile.
SIEGE gave me everything. Handling CLs was a child's play, so i could come up with any idea as it came.
* Security ? Check !
* Guards ? Check !
* Surveillance ? Check !
* Patrolling helicopter because some important Black Op agent just came home with important (and completely unrelated to the players) intel ? Check !
* Mercenaries (Jericho style) in for debriefing, messing with the whole op ? Check !
* Using the "important Black Op agent" to thwart them up a bit, since i knew with ONE SIEGE CHECK he noticed something going on while passing by ? Check !!!!!!!!!
***** Everything the player's characters once could do due to feats, skills, and departments ? Check and Triple Check !!!!!!!
Their former character sheets never came out, only the memories of the cool ideas that where BEHIND every stat and class ability and such; and with a simple SIEGE check, it worked... or failed, quick and good !!!!!
So now we had some time to get used to the new, rules-light gaming again, this was one real, true super-spy/espionnage game straight from hell !!!!!!
The SIEGE doesn't in fact need much conversion at all, because once you have the fondations of your game, the checks and some imagination can handle it all !!!!!
Still, i'm going to watch carefully how things go when we finally get to play again, and let you folks now if some new issues or precise mechanics come into play...
Hoping to be still of somewhat interest here.
Control.
_________________
People, i'm a German living in France, so please be forgiving about my English...
So here i am, back with more or less new comments to add to our ongoing Spycraft game using the SIEGE engine.
As we didn't play very much since last time i posted this (damn job schedule), not to much to add for now, but with upcoming StarSIEGE i'm waiting for, i went at least back to some self-brainstorming about SIEGE and contemporary/anticipation games....
* Still no true solution for detailed car chases and other vehicular combat:
As there wasn't any real chase scene or the like in the few games we had since then, i'm still wondering how to finally handle this...
If i do at all, and not simply go for the SIEGE checks that seem right when it comes about... Would work fine too.
* But one true revelation !!!!
As i said, maybe i'll just go for chases like i do for anything else; because man, they were SOOOOOOOO right in the fighter topic: Who needs Feats or Crunchies when you got the SIEGE !!!!
Last game, my players decided, on the spot, and to my own surprise, to make a flash break-in to the Langley CIA home base, because they had some intelligence issues they simply wanted to clear. Here and now. (after all, we're talking about a team of three level 16 to 18 Agents here... Hey, they should be able to try that, at least !)
And they did... And I did !
I had nothing prepared about Langley's security, no NPCs at hand, no floorplans, nothing.
I went at it on the go... with a smile.
SIEGE gave me everything. Handling CLs was a child's play, so i could come up with any idea as it came.
* Security ? Check !
* Guards ? Check !
* Surveillance ? Check !
* Patrolling helicopter because some important Black Op agent just came home with important (and completely unrelated to the players) intel ? Check !
* Mercenaries (Jericho style) in for debriefing, messing with the whole op ? Check !
* Using the "important Black Op agent" to thwart them up a bit, since i knew with ONE SIEGE CHECK he noticed something going on while passing by ? Check !!!!!!!!!
***** Everything the player's characters once could do due to feats, skills, and departments ? Check and Triple Check !!!!!!!
Their former character sheets never came out, only the memories of the cool ideas that where BEHIND every stat and class ability and such; and with a simple SIEGE check, it worked... or failed, quick and good !!!!!
So now we had some time to get used to the new, rules-light gaming again, this was one real, true super-spy/espionnage game straight from hell !!!!!!
The SIEGE doesn't in fact need much conversion at all, because once you have the fondations of your game, the checks and some imagination can handle it all !!!!!
Still, i'm going to watch carefully how things go when we finally get to play again, and let you folks now if some new issues or precise mechanics come into play...
Hoping to be still of somewhat interest here.
Control.
_________________
People, i'm a German living in France, so please be forgiving about my English...
The SIEGE system is awesome.
Great to hear how well its going.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Great to hear how well its going.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.