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Monsters & Treasures - Vampire Entry 
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Red Cap

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:00 am
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Post Monsters & Treasures - Vampire Entry
In the Vampire Entry, it mentions Vampire Spawn and to (see below) for those statistics. Only, there aren't any statistcs for Vampire Spawn.

I haven't been able to locate any errata regarding the missing stats for Vampire Spawn as well.


Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:49 pm
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Mogrl

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I thought it was in the errata. If not, wing it. Make them about 1/3rd the level with the same powers and puppets to the will of their creator until the creator is destroyed. That should cover it well enough.

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Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:11 pm
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Mogrl

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The stats were cut, though they were submitted. The "create spawn" ability should have been removed, but was not. However, if you must have the stats:

Quote:
serleran on Dragonsfoot wrote:
Vampire Spawn Subrace: A creature killed by a Vampire and then subjected to its Create Spawn ability becomes a lesser form of Vampire. These creatures are identical to a standard Vampire, except as follows:

Hit Dice: 4d12 (26 hp)

Movement: 30 feet

Special: Blood Drain, Energy Drain, Regeneration (1 hit point), Electrical Resistance (half), Spawn

Saves: Physical

Spawn: A Vampire Spawn is under the control of its creator; however, if the vampire that created the spawn is destroyed, that spawn becomes a full vampire, gaining the normal statistics.


Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:57 pm
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Mogrl

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Why were the create spawn rules removed? How does being turned into a vampire work in C&C?

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:05 pm
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Mogrl

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:00 am
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Umm, I don't knpow why the "create spawn" rules were cut, but its not like they're needed, either. If someone becomes a vampire from being attacked by one, they become a NPC, at which point it doesn't matter to the player what the "rules" are, other than, they're not playing that character anymore. If a CK wants a "weak" vampire, they just use one with lesser HD or removes abilioties, or weakens them, like having regeneration at 1 HP / round or even less.

The only reason I even created the vampire spawn "rules" was because they're listed in the SRD.


Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:19 pm
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Mogrl

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Ser,

We (you and I) use the Ravenloft setting. Only a NPC? Not necessarily.

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:54 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Quote:
Treebore wrote:
I thought it was in the errata. If not, wing it. Make them about 1/3rd the level with the same powers and puppets to the will of their creator until the creator is destroyed. That should cover it well enough.



It is in the errata, and I used what was in the SRD, editing the text down a bit to take out all the junk TETSNBN has.

Create Spawn: If a vampire consciously chooses, it can drain a human victim and bring the deceased under its control as a spawn. The victim is treated as a vampire of Hit Dice equal to its level. Up to 16 Hit Dice of spawn can be controlled at one time, other spawn above this limit becoming free willed.
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Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:07 pm
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Mogrl

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A spawn is under the control of the vampire creator... so, yes, only a NPC.


Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:49 am
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Greater Lore Drake
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So I guess the "official" word regarding the Create Spawn ability is that it should have been removed from the book? Honestly, methinks an official word on half the Monsters & Treasure errata would be useful here. I still have items marked as "provisional" errata that could use a bit of input.
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Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:54 am
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Hlobane Orc

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It makes sense however.

The Wraith and Wight entries both have how they make other Wraiths and Wights (aka Wraith and Wight spawn)

Both have that those created in such manner have half the HD as they do, so if the rules had come out I'd have thought the Vampire Spawn would have followed a similar method.

It is curious they cut out the Vampire Spawn entry.


Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:22 pm
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Mogrl

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At least this is C&C. Handle it however you see fit.

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Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.


Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:42 pm
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Lore Drake

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 7:00 am
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I just noticed that in the Monsters & Treasure errata, the XP cost to add to a spellcasting creature is equal to 100 XP per spell level. Should not the system in M&T be used for spells? So, for the shaman in the errata document, which has a total of 24 spell levels, distributed as 5/3/3/1, assuming it is a 4HD monster, the XP cost would be:

5*20 (spells of first level, Special I)

3*20 (spells of second level, Special I)

3*20 (spells of third level, Special I)

1*30 (spell of fourth level, Special II)

=250 XP

Am I missing something (serleran?)

In general, if a creature can use a 1st level spell-like ability, e.g., 3/day, should it be granted 3 times the Special I cost of the equivalent spell?

Cheers,

Antonio


Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:50 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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I'll wait for serleran to answer that one definitively, but the example written up in the errata is based on another creature in the book that has shamans (kobold I believe, but I'll have to double check). So the mechanism is the same.
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Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:29 pm
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Mogrl

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The "shaman" rules were written before the XP system was implemented. Therefore there is inconsistency between the two. For races that typically have class abilities (those listed as such in the "Special:" line at the end of the write-up should have their XP adjusted per spell per level, as noted for the "goblin spellcaster." Those that grant spells via other methods should use the HD and Type as normal.

The reason for this is simple: monsters that have classes are more powerful than those without, because they technically gain all the benefits of the class. For example, if you had a goblin fighter, he would be able to use all weapons, wear all armor, have weapon specialization, combat dominance, and whatnot, depending only on what level fighter he is. In addition, and this has not been released yet (as its not yet official), his HD are replaced (if better) with those of the class type, so that goblin is using d10s and not the normal kind... but, something more potent, like, say a troll barbarian will be getting d12s and not d8s... which is both frightening and disturbed.


Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:06 am
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Lore Drake

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Quote:
serleran wrote:
The "shaman" rules were written before the XP system was implemented. Therefore there is inconsistency between the two. For races that typically have class abilities (those listed as such in the "Special:" line at the end of the write-up should have their XP adjusted per spell per level, as noted for the "goblin spellcaster." Those that grant spells via other methods should use the HD and Type as normal.

The reason for this is simple: monsters that have classes are more powerful than those without, because they technically gain all the benefits of the class. For example, if you had a goblin fighter, he would be able to use all weapons, wear all armor, have weapon specialization, combat dominance, and whatnot, depending only on what level fighter he is. In addition, and this has not been released yet (as its not yet official), his HD are replaced (if better) with those of the class type, so that goblin is using d10s and not the normal kind... but, something more potent, like, say a troll barbarian will be getting d12s and not d8s... which is both frightening and disturbed.



But where is this section on XP spell costs for goblin spellcasters? Also, I do not see any class indication in Special: for goblins.


Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:02 pm
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Mogrl

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Umm, cause its under kobold. My fault. Goblins are the same as kobolds in that regard. All the typical evil humanoids are. This will need to be explained in M&T II, I guess. Something like "spellcasting monsters."


Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:15 pm
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Battle Stag
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Quote:
serleran wrote:
...monsters that have classes are more powerful than those without, because they technically gain all the benefits of the class



I've done this in my games, fairly extensively, whivch makes for some terrifying encounters. The only thing I have not come up with is a way to adjust the XP fopr adding class levels to a "monster."

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Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:18 pm
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Lore Drake

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Quote:
serleran wrote:
Umm, cause its under kobold. My fault. Goblins are the same as kobolds in that regard. All the typical evil humanoids are. This will need to be explained in M&T II, I guess. Something like "spellcasting monsters."



Thank you! So, it seems I am going to recalculate XPs for my spellcasting draconians
Perhaps in the next printing of M&T I?

Well, I guess I will buy M&T II, too
Cheers,

Antonio


Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:38 pm
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